Got My DM - But I Don't Want to Dive "This Way"...

[OneBrightGator]

Well, I don't ski, so that point is lost on me.

Why must you choose?
Is it impossible that an instructor can be responsible to *gasp* both???

For example, personally, I like my Dive Rite regs. I've had a couple other brands but I prefer the DRs over other brands because I can easily service them myself and the nuances of how they route on doubles.

Neither of those things matter to a fresh OW diver.

If I didn't work for a DR shop my options are either to recommend what the shop sells or recommend DRs (which may not be locally available). Option A supports the LDS and gets a diver in the water sooner with regs from a reputible shop (after all, I teach there ) Option B sends them out to who knows where on a hunt for these "better" regs that they may or may not find... for no benefit to the diver.

 

[Thalassamania]

Well, I don't ski, so that point is lost on me.

Why must you choose?
Is it impossible that an instructor can be responsible to *gasp* both???

For example, personally, I like my Dive Rite regs. I've had a couple other brands but I prefer the DRs over other brands because I can easily service them myself and the nuances of how they route on doubles.

Neither of those things matter to a fresh OW diver.

If I didn't work for a DR shop my options are either to recommend what the shop sells or recommend DRs (which may not be locally available). Option A supports the LDS and gets a diver in the water sooner with regs from a reputible shop (after all, I teach there ) Option B sends them out to who knows where on a hunt for these "better" regs that they may or may not find... for no benefit to the diver.

Oh come on ... you're One Bright Gator.

 

[Ben_ca]

Dude.... Gator's don't ski!

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

Getting a little prophetic... aren't we?

We're talking about diving here, not Creationism vs. Evolution.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound dramatic.

But the issue here isn't specific to diving. For as long as there's been teachers, there's been bosses that tried to interfere with the way teacher's teach. Part of being a professional is understanding that you have ethical obligations to your students - even if the real world forces you to make some compromises you don't appreciate.

No one will take your sense of professionalism any more seriously than you do, and if instructors don't guard their career's professionalism, no one else will. So the question here isn't whether the instructor should wear the same BC as the students. The question is if the instructor is basing his decision on what is best of the students or what is best for the shop's bottom line.



(Edit: I mean the royal "you" here, not specifically the OP.)

 

[JohnnyH]

My take is two-fold...

If I am teaching open water students then I use a very standard open water rig - basically exactly what the student is using. Because so much of what students get out of the practical side of dive instruction is derived from emulating their instructor, I feel it's important that my setup is the same as theirs. And personally, anyone operating in instructor mode damn well should be far beyond 'comfortable' diving in this type of configuration.

However, during one of the last classroom sessions I make a point of showing them my tech setup all put together. I've seen many folks amazed by the direction diving can take them. (Of course I also bring them into the aquarium and they get to watch a feeding dive - providing yet another direction)

Now - if I am operating as a Divemaster and leading certified divers on a tour - then I wear whatever I please. For me that means a BP/Harness with a STA.

FWIW
j

 

[pengwe]

You wear it just like you were taught to wear it in basic OW1.

Should you need to deploy your primary 2nd stage on a long hose to share air/gas, you simply make a curling motion with your right hand to get it around your snorkel. It's not rocket science.

I seem to remember Thal at one point saying that he wore the snorkel at the back of his head.

 

[Buoyant1]

I could see maybe being "forced" to wear or carry a snorkel (based upon the course standards, and the confusion factor with students) and possibly succumbing to wearing a standard regularot rig (short hoses, etc.) but being forced to wear a jacket BC vs a BP/W is a bit much. it's a BCD bottom line, why should that bother anyone? The instructors (and DM's) at the shop I use all have plates, and there are a few students I've seen diving plates. (and there are a few in the rental gear for use) Now the one instructor (who mainly dives doubles for fun dives) uses a standard config, mainly because when he's teaching, he's using what the students are using. and All but maybe one of the DM's use that same config. (One guy is long hose/bungied, but I've never seen him working with a class,and not sure what he uses for those)


With that caveat in mind, If you are working for someone, then you need to adibe by their rules (like it or not) and with the corporate "genius" attitude that most of us have to deal with on a regular basis at our normal jobs "don't like it there's the door"

I also think that instructors owe it to their students to talk about "alternate ways".."Ok this is what you are learning in, it's a basic set up, it works..HOWEVER there is another way, make your own choices!"

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I heard it is excellent.

I'd like to know what they do now. I think they have some challenging drills.

From what I've seen at our shop (NAUI/YMCA) the course is alot different from my PADI DM course. I did a crossover and could have went either way. I chose YMCA. But while alot of skills are similar in that they need to be demo quality the difference is that there is alot more actual teaching involved with YMCA and NAUI as opposed to PADI. Also NAUI DM is the equivalent of PADI AI roughly. NAUI and YMCA DM's and AI's can teach virtually the entire course. All classroom sessions and lectures are prepared by us. Now all of this is under the direct supervision of the instructor while training but once we actually get the cert we can teach classroom sessions alone and some pool sessions do not need an instructor in the water. Swimming and snorkeling does not require an instructor to be there. Some skills such as the bailout, mask snorkel fin recovery are not taught anywhere in the PADI program. My Y instructor pool session swimming snorkeling skills went like this, 400 yd swim, 15 minute tread, 200 yd snorkel swim demoing at least three different kicks and two distinct types of surface dives, then a 2 minute break. Long enough for us to get out of the shallow end walk to the deep end. Execute a giant stride entry place mask fins and snorkel at bottom of pool in deep end. Exit in deep end, execute another giant stride entry, swim over the gear on the surface to a point 40 ft past it, Stop and catch breath and with in 30 seconds of stopping swim 40 ft under water recover gear and have fins on, mask cleared and snorkel breathable upon surfacing with face in the water swim a few yards and exit. The pool exam session with scuba gear was immediately after this. Oh BTW we also were asked to give lectures between exercises. Just little short 15 minute ones on whatever topic the evaluator chose. THese were no prep. Dive pros should be able to discourse on many subjects with no prep at any time.

The scuba session involved buddy breathing, swim 50 yds, exchange gear , swim 50 yds buddy breathing, then hover for 3 minutes with depth not varying more than 1-2 ft with minimum of motion(none is preferred) short skills demo- mask clear, reg recovery, etc while hovering, then surface. Empty all air from bc and tread water for 5 minutes. Then unconscious diver recovery from pool bottom, and tow while rescue breathing and stripping gear. Then paniced diver rescue/control. There were other things as well but those stand out in my mind. BTW this all took place starting at 7pm after doing exams, lectures and workshops starting at 8 am that morning. We finished up around 10:30 PM

Then it was back to the shop by 8am for the drive to the quarry for open water tests. Which we did in 53 degree water in dry suits. Our "students" were other instructors and experienced divers who threw most everything at us tha twe'd see in 5 open water classes. But the amount of prep we went thru in the courses of DM/ AI/ and Instructor allowed us to be more than up to the task.

If you get the chance to do the NAUI course or YMCA go for it. It'll open your eyes to a whole new world of teaching methods.

 

[OneBrightGator]

But the issue here isn't specific to diving. For as long as there's been teachers, there's been bosses that tried to interfere with the way teacher's teach. Part of being a professional is understanding that you have ethical obligations to your students - even if the real world forces you to make some compromises you don't appreciate.

No one will take your sense of professionalism any more seriously than you do, and if instructors don't guard their career's professionalism, no one else will. So the question here isn't whether the instructor should wear the same BC as the students. The question is if the instructor is basing his decision on what is best of the students or what is best for the shop's bottom line.

It's just extrememly nitpicky to me. I would have a serious issue if a shop owner came in and said that he didn't think students needed to know skill X, so I shouldn't teach it or my class was finished in the pool even though I hadn't completed all the skills.

This isn't the administration coming in and telling a professor not to teach about the Holocaust, it's the administration coming in and telling a professor he shouldn't wear a Florida State shirt if he's going to teach at the University of Florida (good taste dictates this anyway).

It's just gear! When it comes down to it, getting a student back in the water in their own gear with a good shop behind them is far more important then the brand name sewn/stamped/etched on their gear.

 

[Cacia]

It's just extrememly nitpicky to me.

Is this a Seattle area thing? Because, to me it seems to be regionally like *this* about things in general. I could be wrong, I am just giving my impression. Some places are just more rules oriented than others and you then have to deal with it to a higher degree. Combine that with being vigilant/ thorough/ intelligent personalities and you end up with a lot of dilemmas.

lol, Florida generally does not have this problem, Gator. No offense to Floridians. I think 85 year old solo spear divers here keep snorkels off the PC radar, for example.