Wow, it sucks when you try to hang someone in the court of public opinion and the public doesn’t see it your way doesn’t it, Mr. Noe? Ew, I have a feeling you wish you had never started this thread now. It seems to have blown up in your face pretty bad, but I guess there is nothing really you can do about it now. Not a dig, just an observation. Well, I figure I will toss my hat into the ring as well, here’s my take on all this….
I have read your Notice of complaint several times trying to completely understand it. I’m still not sure I do understand it all though. Incidentally, it’s interesting you word it like that, as a “Notice of complaint”. I guess maybe you thought the more “officious” sounding you could make it, the better right? Calling it a “Notice of complaint” makes it sound all “Lawyerly”. Problem is this isn’t a court, and this isn’t a legal document. I think you would have done better if you would have made it more personable, because with its current wording it looks a little snobbish, at least that’s what I think my creative writing professor would have said. (It’s ok—we’ll just move on)
In the first three paragraphs of your complaint you name the GSEP organization and explain its history, activities, and some of the organizations and universities you are affiliated with. You mentioned publications you have been in. You even told us about your award. All these are great and it’s nice to see your organization getting some recognition, but why did your complaint need this? Were you trying to give weight to your argument? Were you trying to sound more important or official? Or is it chest thumping? (no biggie—we just be moving on again)
Now we get to paragraph five, the actual complaint (yes-five paragraphs to get to the actual complaint—you’re a long winded one aren’tcha Chuck Noe, but that’s alright, so am I, in fact I have a feeling my post is going to be even longer). So here we go, we are here now----the complaint……..Chuck Noe says ” we were compelled to temporarily suspend diving operations and remove elements of our equipment to prevent what we consider as a serious hazard to our project activities”. Ok, what was the hazard to your project?
Is the fact they were diving deep the “serious hazard” you are referring to??.... “the Cushman/Irons group’s stated intention to conduct a dive to 600 feet of depth could likely end in injury or death to the principal participants.”
Ok---help me out here---Looking at your post the whole complaint is that they were diving deeper than you in a public dive site, right Chuck? That’s all your complaining about right, the depth?
Alright, let’s take a look at that then and see if the proposed dive is a “serious hazard”.
While it would appear to the average recreational diver that diving to a depth over 500’ is nearly an insurmountable feat, there ARE trained and experienced divers out there who CAN and HAVE made this accomplishment.
In fact, let’s take the two teams represented here under a little more scrutiny……
On the cavediver.net post we see that the Steve Cushman/Colin Irons team has been to 493’ in Good Enough Springs on October 13, 2009----ok we will accept that as documented fact.
On the GSEP website the following is posted under the PASSED EVENTS tab
“On Sunday, July 20, 2008, seven members of the Goodenough Springs Exploration Project (GSEP) completed a successful exploration of this high-flow cave system to a depth of 515 feet………(Ryan) Eastman accompanied (Chuck) Noe beyond the restriction before sending him on to continue as a solo diver. Chuck continued from the previously explored depth of 394 feet down a steep, deeply eroded passage to a pea-gravel floor nearly 500 feet down.”
So, from the postings on GSEP’s own website we see that Chuck Noe has been to 515’ (AS A SOLO DIVER). We will accept that as a documented fact as well.
OK—so what facts do we noe (sorry, I couldn’t help it) --- Noe and the GSEP team have been to 515’, and the Cushman/Irons team have been to 493’. Both teams made these dive depths in Good Enough. That’s a difference in depth of 22’. Sounds like both teams are seriously good divers to me, and you can’t argue that one dive is a “grossly imprudent dive objective” without saying the same about the other as well. That’s what my Daddy says is “the pot calling the kettle black”
But I would like to know a little more about that last little tidbit on the GSEP post. Why did you continue on to 515’ as a SOLO diver Chuck? Did Ryan Eastman get to 400’ and decide he was not comfortable with going any farther? (Please DO NOT take this as a dig on you Ryan, you are innocent of all this pettiness in my book, and 400’ is way more than I would be comfortable with diving to, you’re golden with me bubba, and I would be proud to dive with you any day).
Ok, so what other scenarios could have happened for you to go that deep solo?…..ok, ok, ok I’ve got another one…(cue dramatic music here)……Chuck, did you look over at Ryan and bravely signal to him “No Ryan, don’t come with me, it’s just too dangerous. I will go on from here….alone. If something happens to me, tell my wife I love her.” (cue Chuck turning into the cave and descending into the black abyss with Ryan looking on apprehensively) That’s plausible right? Tell us, is that how it happened Chuck? (Naa, that's just too cheesy and melodramatic---kind of seems like it came out of a bad Hollywood movie)
Ok, ok, ok…I think I got it now. Chuck, you sly dog you, you just didn’t want to share the limelight with anyone else. An alpha dog cave diver like you, you just wanted to hold the title for the deepest dive in the system all to yourself.
Naa, you wouldn’t have done that would ya Chuck? Because that last scenario kind of comes off as bragging and egotistical, and Chuck we all noe (opps, I did it again) you’re in this for the scientific research right? You’re not in it for records or bragging or any kind of petty megalomaniac stuff like that, right? I mean come on, you’re above all that right, so that scenario just doesn’t work? I mean come on, you’re a well respected guy in the cave diving community with a solid reputation. When you have mucked up in the past and stepped on someone else’s toes, you up and sent an nice letter to apologize. And you have a copy of that apology letter available upon request. That’s good. Good on ya, Chuck. Way to man up, Chuck. Gotta keep your reputation as a “good guy” unsoiled in the public eye.(....Moving on….again.)
Well, I guess the only one who really noes (I’ll stop, I'll stop, I promise) the truth about all this and why you made that 515’ dive solo is you Chuck.
Now we get to the part about the courtesy/respect of the Cushman/Irons team. Good Enough springs is a public dive site, so asking for permission isn’t really necessary, but the email string on cavediver.net looks like the C/I team was trying to be nothing but professional and courteous and make sure they didn’t get in the way of, or jeopardize any of the ongoing exploration/research of the GSEP team. Sounds like a classy move by the Cushman/Irons team if you asked me.
There is a part of the post dive email I would like some clarification on……Chuck you said “After trying to give you (Colin Irons) and Steve (Cushman) the benefit of the doubt, the calls started coming in last week about your plans to thumb your noses at our 10 years of scientific work and exploration to do your "cowboy" dives.”
Looking at that statement, I can only conclude that you knew about the dive plan A WEEK PRIOR to the dive (when “the calls started coming in last week”
. So Chuck, if you had a problem with them and you knew about it a week prior why couldn’t you have called or sent an email back to the Cushman/Irons team and inquired about the dive objective, the depth, or expressed any of your feelings, concerns, or misgivings? (Have a problem expressing your feelings Chuck? Its ok, tough guys like you always do.) But the point is, in his emails, Mr. Irons repeatedly states they do not want to be in the way or interfere. As proof, I offer the following quotes…
Colin Irons in his emails to Chuck Noe….
“…we want to avoid interfering with any dives you may have planned.”
“…Please let me know if this will be a problem so if needed we can make alternative plans before it’s too late.”
“Your task definitely takes priority and all of GSEP's work is appreciated. Let us know of any procedures or steps we can take to stay out of the way.”
“Let me know if there is anything else we can do to avoid causing problems.”
Ok Chuck, as Ricky Ricardo used to say “Esplains zis to me”. Mr. Irons asked you time and time again how can they stay out of GSEP’s way, how can they avoid causing problems for GSEP, how can they avoid interfering with GSEP’s activities….etc. But you never say anything other than yea come dive, here’s all the info you need. At one point you even say “We’ll be in and out in a matter of a few hours then you’ll have the site all to yourselves again”. I interpret a statement like that to mean once we're gone DO WHAT YOU WANT. But that’s not what happened is it? You never say to them “you guys may be in the way”, you never say “if you guys are planning a deep dive, please don’t do it here”, you never ask a single question about the dive plan, the target depth, nope, you don’t say NADA, even though you knew about the dive plan a week before (obviously you knew about it long enough in advance to put together a team to remove all the moorings, chains, pull lines, etc. prior to the other teams arrival). It just seems to me that a reasonable and intelligent person would have picked up a phone and made an inquiry to the other team before jumping to conclusions and condemning said dive team in every public forum you could think of. I mean come on Chuck, have you ever even been in the water with the Cushman/Irons team to see their capabilities. I hate to think about the cost and expense removing all of your equipment must have cost the GSEP team. From a business standpoint, it just seems like a tragic waste of GSEP’s resources. From the tone of ALL of Mr. Irons emails, it seems that if you would have raised the slightest objection to their dive, they would have called it off and it would have been no hard feelings. But noe (ok-last time) you went into sneaky and stealthy mode (cue mission impossible theme song here) and went out to the site before the other team could get there, and then you "sabotaged/booby-trapped the battlefield" without the other team noeing about it (come on--you have to give me that one it was too good to pass up)
Ok---does that about sum it up? How does that scenario work for you, Chuck? Does that sound about right on how it all went down?
Oh yea, speaking of tragic loss, txdivegrl had it pegged right on. You know what the real tragedy of this whole fiasco is? It’s what a FANTASTIC TEAM this could have made? Chuck, perhaps in the future, maybe you could expand your thinking. Maybe next time, if you find out there is a capable, experienced, team with the skills and abilities to dive to 600’, don’t see it as a challenge to your position at the top, see them as an asset to help you reach your goals. Swallow your pride a minute and Think about that, a three man team with the skills and capabilities of 600’ depth and thousands of feet of penetration. Man, think about the scientific research and exploration a team like that could be capable of, not to mention the added safety margin of a three man deep cave exploration team with skills like that. It makes me want to break down in tears over the lost opportunity. It’s a damned shame too because after all this I doubt either team would be willing to dive with the other. It’s almost a Greek tragedy. Oh well, moving on…..
Chuck, I think if our positions were reversed and I was the director of GSEP, I think I would have approached this a little differently. I think I would have just sent a few emails and tried to resolve this behind closed doors, not airing this out in a public forum like scubaboard, and cavediver.net, and the decostop.com and the National Speleological Society - Cave Diving Section, and the National Association of Cave Divers, and Technical Diving International, and the International Association of Nitrox and Technical Divers, and Global Underwater Explorers, and International Underwater Cave Rescue and Recovery and the Texas Aquifer Research Alliance (gees Chuck, talk about overkill, everyone is going to see this post---talk about embarrassing. Just remember that if anything like this should ever happen again in the future, keep it behind closed doors, then the whole internet wont see you as being childish and petty)
Ok---now that I have said my peace, and made my observations, I am going to let it go. I for one vote to
close this thread and save Chuck anymore embarrassment. I think he has suffered enough for our amusement now.
I hope I wasn’t too long winded in making my points.
I do have one last thing to ask Chuck. Because I didn’t take your side, does this mean we can’t still be friends?
