Getting this board started

[Okiecaver]

No thanks. Too Sweet- rots your teeth.

Well Fine, just fine. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery , but no, you get all hot and testy.

<Sniff> I'll just go away then. Thats ok- dont worry about me, I'll be ok. just probably die in some cave cuz Roak sez i ripped off his name and now everyone hates me. But thats ok, you all will be better off without me.

Who says you need to be jewish to inflict guilt. And you should see my Welsh passive agressive act.

Dive safe
Brock

Disclaimer: the above correspondent is operating under influence of too many chocolate santas, rendering him incapable of making sound judgments. This condition is called Choc-tox, and is known to affect millions around the holidays.

 

[Bob3]

Choc-tox

Holy smokers, sounds like one of the places I used to visit in da Yucatan.

 

[roakey]

Originally posted by Bob3
Holy smokers, sounds like one of the places I used to visit in da Yucatan.

You thinking of Chac Mool? (Jaguar Cave)

Roak

 

[Bob3]

Chac is Mayan for "red", (alternately "blood")
Muul means "hill" or alternately "mountain".
Interesting picture, eh?

I used to spend every January kicking around the Yucatan & Q-Roo area. It's kinda fun practicing the language, and a necessity if ya want the locals to fill you in on interesting little out of the way places to visit, like their cenotes.
Never was able to lug a lot of gear along, but my trusty duck feet, mask & snorkel made lotsa miles.
There's an uncollapsed cenote outside of Valladiloid (sp?) that's accessable through a tunnel cut into the rock, and they have electric lights in it. Gin clear water can fool ya; I was past 20m fetching a pair of eyeglasses that looked like they were a whole lot closer.
Dzibichaltun' (sp?) is north of Merida, cute small cenote that hadn't seen much activity. They have a little museum there now with the artifacts that got fished out.
I would hazard a guess that there are a whole lot more diveable spots down there quietly sitting in the jungle or scrub just waiting for some patient person to chat their way into them.
The Mayans are a very quiet & reserved folk, not open to strangers. My favorite conversation starter was lugging a couple of sacks of marbles along & getting a game going with the kids. The dad would show up when the kids brought home their winnings. Asking to buy some honey was also a good one because the guys with the "milpas" [garden] usually had them a ways out of the village & were quite happy to show off their hives. Be wary of "just a little ways" though, it can take half a day to walk that far.

 

[jjoeldm]

Originally posted by NetDoc
I have met too many "cowboys" among cave divers. They just plain scare the scat out of me. While I would like to go through the training for cavern (and possibly cave) I do not want to become lured by going deeper/farther. However, I understand that the lures can be great, and I would never foist my own phobias on anyone else. Learn from you and steal some of your ideas, oh yes! But I still have to go with my "gut feeling" that you guys are looney to the core... but hey, thats what the non-divers say about me and my passion for open water diving. They can't understand me, just like I have a hard time understanding cavers... go figure!

Cave diving IS nuts. Ask any experienced dry caver who has gotten lost in a cave for HOURS with LOTS of air all around. It's like my skydiving instructor said, "If you have a problem you have the rest of your life to figure it out." Water is a low-oxygen environment and having a ceiling above you can lead to a very bad day if you're not very, very careful . . . and sometimes if you are.

Having said that, I love cave diving. Sure, it's the challenge, but I find it spectacularly beautiful, even zero-vis belly in the silt and rock on my back boreholes. Not being a religious person, it's like my own personal cathedral, quiet, private (with a buddy) and perfect.

But cave diving is not and will never be "safe". There are rarely accidents in cave diving, only miraculous escapes and death. That there are so many people trying to make a living teaching it and other forms of tech diving is, to me, even MORE incredibly dangerous. Cave diving is one sport that should never be promoted, packaged and sold. I got into because I had to, I gravitated to it like a moth to a dim, distant flame, now the trick is not getting burned . . . and not believing my own rep.

These days Tech diving is just another specialty like PADI Dayglo Shore Diver, you can buy all the really cool black tech gear with tons of "D" rings right along with your Force Fins and SCUDA. In most cases it's too much too soon. Of course, Tech diving certainly does NOT have the market cornered for know-it-all, macho Dive God-ness. It's just a guy thing.

And it scares the hell outa me too.

JoeL

 

[bradymsu]

JoeL,

I agree with your post, technical diving is a scary activity. I have a certification in technical cave diving but I'd by lying if I didn't say it scares me as much as much as I love it. Not living in Florida, I don't get to cave dive all that often and when I do it's only the novice stuff like Peacock not going off the gold lines.

There seems to be two motivations for technical diving. The first is usually only seen in guys like you mentioned. It's the all-black thing where the gear seems to be as important to the diver as their training, in some cases more. It's a masculinity thing, proving to the world how tough and cool the diver thinks he is. It's technical diving as an extreme sport.

The second motivation seems to be a love for the science behind diving and the adventure of going places that are normally way off limits to humans. Often, these guys (and gals) are just as turned on by researching and planning a dive as they are actually doing it just like the traveler who spends several months planning a one week vacation. These people who may be in a totally unrelated profession can have very professional discussions about wreck history, cave geology and mixed gas physics.

As we know, there currently is too much of the first motivation and too little of the second in the tech community regardless of what agency or school of thought/gear-configuartion the person trained under. As a result, I'm very careful about who I pick as a dive buddy. One trick I've heard in seperating those with lots of type 1 motivation from more serious tech divers is to throw a hot pink item into your kit-for me it's my fins. You can tell a lot about a techie by his reaction. Plus if you're an instructor, students love them.

By the way, the scariest tech divers I've come across are those that have had a lot of their tech training over the internet instead of by an experienced technical instructor. Many don't realize it, but the internet is a very poor substitute. It ranks up there with buying used tech gear online. Technical diving should be an expensive activity that takes a lot of commitment, time and discipline.

-Brady

 

[roakey]

"Good technical diving is about the reduction of risk, not taking risks."

Roak

 

[Bob]

At my LDS, there are three types that are catered to, the cavers, the tekkies and the spearfisherman. My shop basically services advanced divers. I hang with the hunters, but I am SLOWLY moving toward the tech guys. I will probably start with classes this Spring after my DM course. I don't like the superior attitudes that some of these tech guys have, but I do see the benefits of the additional training and the way they rig their gear. It is practical and well thought out. That's what I get for lurking around here in the tech sections. I am moving in this direction in thought and practice :tree:Bob

 

[blacknet]

Hello,

Anytime you step into the water you are taking a risk.

Ed

 

[roakey]

Once you're a zygote you're taking a risk.