Getting separated on a Coz reef dive...

[ggunn]

Well, a couple of things. One, though wind and current affect the sausage's movement, it would have to be one heck of a wind and/or current differential to blow it off at such an angle where I'd really be at five feet when I'm at my 15 foot mark. I've done this a lot and I've never seen it more than a degree or two off vertical.

Second, since I am pulling down on the bottom of it all the time, the buoy is sticking vertically out of the water instead of lying on the surface, so it is harder to miss or ignore, and pertinient to the first issue, much less likely to be blown away.

Third, I've got it clipped to me by a very light duty clip, and my buoy line is very lightweight; in the extremely unlikely event that a boat would run over it and hook onto it somehow, it would just tear away rather than pull me along like a downed water skiier. Anyway, don't most DM's have their buoy reels clipped to their BC's? Maybe they unclip them when they are deployed; I've never noticed them do that, though.

Anyway, it works for me. YMMV.

 

[loudives]

As a single diver I always buddy up with an unknown diver or have to be a third leg. My dive master knows my abilities and I always talk to him/her and my dive buddy before we go. There have been a couple of times where we for 1 reason or another have gotten separated. We stick together, check air, and if possible follow the current for a couple min. hoping to hook back up. If we don't hook back up in 2-3 min. its time for the safety stop. I will abort a dive early if we get separated. I also will watch the entire group and if I see divers linger I try to let the divemaster know so he can slow the group.

Diving with the same operator all the time is helpful to both of us. There are 3 operators in Coz that know me well and I try to help the divemaster as much as he/she wants. Many times with novice or first timers to Coz I have been asked to be the last diver in line so I may help anyone and signal the master.

YOU NEVER GO IT ALONE but if you find yourself in that situation you abort.

 

[charlesml3]

Just would like to point out that a 15 foot marker knot is not really that useful in Cozumel currents since your buoy may be blowing in a surface current and/or wind!. In which case you could end up at 5 feet happily looking at your little knot. The string RARELY goes straight up to the surface!

Maybe you have this problem. I most certainly don't. I looked back through my log book and I've been shooting the tube from 25' and reeling it in to the knot for almost 260 dives now. Out of all of those, I've NEVER seen anything happen as you have described. I'm sitting negative on the string and I'll know right away if it goes slack. Besides, I'm not going to happily drift up to 5 feet and not know it, tube or no tube. I can easily hover at 15' without it.

Back to the topic: I discuss my dive with the DM before we leave the dock. He knows I'm going to be in the back and I do not expect him to be responsible for my safety or keeping the group back to wait for me. If I stay with the group, I stay. If I get separated, well then it's my decision at that point. I am ultimately responsible for my own safety and if I'm willing to take the additional risk then so be it. It's a personal decision.

-Charles

 

[scubawife]

Maybe you have this problem. I most certainly don't. I looked back through my log book and I've been shooting the tube from 25' and reeling it in to the knot for almost 260 dives now. Out of all of those, I've NEVER seen anything happen as you have described. I'm sitting negative on the string and I'll know right away if it goes slack. Besides, I'm not going to happily drift up to 5 feet and not know it, tube or no tube. I can easily hover at 15' without it.

Back to the topic: I discuss my dive with the DM before we leave the dock. He knows I'm going to be in the back and I do not expect him to be responsible for my safety or keeping the group back to wait for me. If I stay with the group, I stay. If I get separated, well then it's my decision at that point. I am ultimately responsible for my own safety and if I'm willing to take the additional risk then so be it. It's a personal decision.

-Charles

I wasn't going to reply to this thread but so much for that. (I did hold out for FOUR pages!) I really wouldn't care how experienced you are, what your skill level is or what you discussed with the DM. If I was one of the other paying customers on the boat I would quickly consider you a rude diver if you made a habit of this and kept us waiting and chasing you while you happily continued your dive solo because that's what suits you. Have you thought about them waiting on the boat? Not receiving the crews full attention because someone has to keep an eye on your bubbles? The rest of the group having to wait for their 2nd dive until you've had a sufficient SI?

I like longer, slow dives, small groups and going to some of the more advanced sites. So, I choose dive ops in Cozumel that provide that. Cozumel is one of those places where there is a dive op for every type of diver and every budget.

When you book a spot on a boat that is not your personal charter then I've always felt that you are accepting to go along with the boat rules and group dive plan. If you want to do your own thing then charter your own boat instead of having the other unsuspecting divers subsidise your adventure.

Charles, I hope you never get yourself into something you can't get out of on your own. And if your dive doesn't work out as you'd like it to, please don't be one of those people who gets one every dive board and starts slamming the dive operator.

It's great that you've had no issues with your knot system in 260 dives. Compared to the number of dives Betsy's probably done in Cozumel (she is a DM and runs her own dive op there for many years now...) she has some basis and knowledge for her comments and I'd bet thousands of dives more then most of us. Sometimes in diving it's good to try and learn from other's experience instead of having to learn by making a mistake yourself... There are enough risks in this sport as it is.

 

[bluewatertoy]

I think a mod should possibly move this to the whine and cheeze forum.
Charles is taking an awful beating on this one. Gordon is going to be in trouble too for his knot trick as well. Ha Ha

 

[Christi]

Back to the topic: I discuss my dive with the DM before we leave the dock. He knows I'm going to be in the back and I do not expect him to be responsible for my safety or keeping the group back to wait for me. If I stay with the group, I stay. If I get separated, well then it's my decision at that point. I am ultimately responsible for my own safety and if I'm willing to take the additional risk then so be it. It's a personal decision.

-Charles

Charles, I'm really not trying to get on your case, and please take this as friendly advice.

The point is that it's really not ok...at least not in Cozumel. Solo diving is not permitted per marine park regulations if you really want to know the truth. When you do this, you actually put the crew and operation at risk...whether you realize it or not. If the terribly unfortunate were to happen, the dive op and crew would have huge issues to deal with...legally and emotionally. You essentially put their livlihoods at risk.

As others have also mentioned, actions like this are also terribly unfair to the other paying customers on the boat. You really should consider chartering your own boat or at least a private DM if you want to dive this way in Cozumel. Under the circumstances and procedures we have to follow here, your actions are quite honestly, selfish.

Anyway, maybe you hadn't thought of the possible consequences of the dive op and crew...hopefully you will be more conscious of staying with the group next time in Cozumel...for your own safety and the peace of mind and livlihoods of the crew and others on the boat.

BTW...the knot thing...yes, it is possible to do what you do...but it is JUST as common to have more than 15 feet of line out even with no slack if there is a surface current...and that was my point.

 

[halocline]

Yeah, I agree he's getting yelled at. I'm often diving single in Coz, sometimes I'm buddied up with another diver, sometimes I'm just kind of part of the group. The conditions are so good in Cozumel I rarely lose sight of the group, usually a couple times during the dive I'll look around to make sure we're all more or less together. But occasionally for one reason or another I'll be kind of off on my own, and I've never thought twice about it. You can be close to 100 ft away from someone and still see them in Coz; that's pretty far apart. I'm also often the last one out of the water, but I take really long safety stops and typically by that time the group is pretty much in the boat or immediate vicinity. Coz diving is not like real team diving to say the least, and the group concept is usually pretty loose.

One dive I was on when I was buddied up with an experienced diver in the group he decided mid-dive, unannounced, to descend at least 50 ft deeper on Santa Rosa wall than the rest of the group. I chased him down a ways to see what was going on and bring him back up then the DM signalled us to ascend to the group, so that's what I did. Next time I saw that guy he was on the boat, and the DM, who was well aquainted with this guy, was hopping mad. I remember thinking as I swam back to the group "this could be really bad" and I was surprised that the DM didn't forbid the guy from doing the second dive, I sure would have. But this was an unplanned immediate departure in what looked like pretty dangerous conditions to me, not someone in the group lingering behind to check out something on the reef.

But Charles, now you know, post somethng about a less than PC dive practice on SB and there will be plenty of people to tell you what's wrong with it!

 

[scubawife]

Yeah, I agree he's getting yelled at. I'm often diving single in Coz, sometimes I'm buddied up with another diver, sometimes I'm just kind of part of the group. The conditions are so good in Cozumel I rarely lose sight of the group, usually a couple times during the dive I'll look around to make sure we're all more or less together. But occasionally for one reason or another I'll be kind of off on my own, and I've never thought twice about it. You can be close to 100 ft away from someone and still see them in Coz; that's pretty far apart. I'm also often the last one out of the water, but I take really long safety stops and typically by that time the group is pretty much in the boat or immediate vicinity. Coz diving is not like real team diving to say the least, and the group concept is usually pretty loose.

One dive I was on when I was buddied up with an experienced diver in the group he decided mid-dive, unannounced, to descend at least 50 ft deeper on Santa Rosa wall than the rest of the group. I chased him down a ways to see what was going on and bring him back up then the DM signalled us to ascend to the group, so that's what I did. Next time I saw that guy he was on the boat, and the DM, who was well aquainted with this guy, was hopping mad. I remember thinking as I swam back to the group "this could be really bad" and I was surprised that the DM didn't forbid the guy from doing the second dive, I sure would have. But this was an unplanned immediate departure in what looked like pretty dangerous conditions to me, not someone in the group lingering behind to check out something on the reef.

But Charles, now you know, post somethng about a less than PC dive practice on SB and there will be plenty of people to tell you what's wrong with it!

My dive buddy and I usually linger a bit behind the group. We don't want to be "those" divers with cameras who don't give others a chance to see stuff, so we stick to the back. Since we are usually with a max of 6 divers and the plan is a long slow dive, there's not an issue of getting seperated. And maybe I've just been lucky with my many dives in Coz, but with the dive ops I've been with, we aren't on top of eachother but we're always together and watch eachother's air and surface as a group.

Getting seperated and dealing with it is totally different then just saying to heck with the DM's dive briefing for the group. When I read Charles' comments, it sounds to me like he is planning to do his own dive and the just filling in the DM about his plan. Can you really say that you would have no issue being on the boat for multiple days with a diver who conitnually disregarded the briefing and did their own thing? He's not the last diver up a couple minutes after the others. He's saying the boat has to track his bubbles and is there when he surfaces.

Maybe I'm misreading the posts?

 

[Christi]

Yeah, I agree he's getting yelled at. I'm often diving single in Coz, sometimes I'm buddied up with another diver, sometimes I'm just kind of part of the group. The conditions are so good in Cozumel I rarely lose sight of the group, usually a couple times during the dive I'll look around to make sure we're all more or less together. But occasionally for one reason or another I'll be kind of off on my own, and I've never thought twice about it. You can be close to 100 ft away from someone and still see them in Coz; that's pretty far apart. I'm also often the last one out of the water, but I take really long safety stops and typically by that time the group is pretty much in the boat or immediate vicinity. Coz diving is not like real team diving to say the least, and the group concept is usually pretty loose.

One dive I was on when I was buddied up with an experienced diver in the group he decided mid-dive, unannounced, to descend at least 50 ft deeper on Santa Rosa wall than the rest of the group. I chased him down a ways to see what was going on and bring him back up then the DM signalled us to ascend to the group, so that's what I did. Next time I saw that guy he was on the boat, and the DM, who was well aquainted with this guy, was hopping mad. I remember thinking as I swam back to the group "this could be really bad" and I was surprised that the DM didn't forbid the guy from doing the second dive, I sure would have. But this was an unplanned immediate departure in what looked like pretty dangerous conditions to me, not someone in the group lingering behind to check out something on the reef.

But Charles, now you know, post somethng about a less than PC dive practice on SB and there will be plenty of people to tell you what's wrong with it!

Matt, It's not about not following PC dive practices, and no, he is not getting yelled at...at least not by me. I'm simply trying to point out that IN COZUMEL, it's actually against local laws to intentionally dive solo. I realize that some people don't like diving with a group or a buddy...but these are the rules and procedures in Cozumel by powers higher than your DM's or even dive ops.

As I mentioned in another post, stuff happens and people occasionally get separated from the group. But doing this routinely/intentionally and having the "heck with it attitude" is a completely different thing than lingering behind to check something out...and that is what we (I am) are addressing.

Don't shoot the messenger...the marine park rules and harbor master regulations are not made by the DM's or the dive ops...we just have to follow them if we want to keep our licenses and permits.

He actually did ask our opinions, and that's all I'm giving.

 

[charlesml3]

Gang,

I knew I was going to take a beating over this when I posted it. I knew someone was going to call me reckless and start in with the "I wouldn't want to be on the boat with you" nonsense. It's funny hearing all the criticizm from all of you who've never even met me, let alone been in the water with me.

At any rate, let's look at some of the points:

-Charles is diving solo: That is inaccurate. I'm diving with a group, but I'm diving my profile. I usually keep the group within sight. If they disappear around a coral head I may or may not find them again. If I do then so much the better. If I don't, I'm completely comfortable and accepting of the risk associated with finishing the dive on my own.

- "the boat has to track his bubbles.." I have no idea where this came from. Nobody is tracking my bubbles. The boat is drifting in the same current and they're looking for my signal tube. Same as they look for the DM's tube.

- "actions like this are also terribly unfair to the other paying customers" Why is it unfair? Shouldn't it be unfair to me to be forced to come up after :30 because one guy on the dive is an air hog? It's not my fault that he's overweight, out of shape, and chain smokes. If I divide out my costs for a trip to Coz, it comes to a little less than $100 per TANK. Thirty minutes into the dive, I'm at 1800 PSI and he's at 500 but we should ALL surface? Please.

- "conitnually disregarded the briefing and did their own thing?" Wrong. As part of the briefing, I explained to the DM that I would be in the back, diving my own profile and he should not panic if I'm out of sight.

- "The rest of the group having to wait for their 2nd dive until you've had a sufficient SI?" Wrong again. I'm diving EAN 32 or EAN 36 and tracking my own saturation levels. My SI is always shorter than the other divers. I've never had a mandatory deco stop on the 2nd since I went Nitrox but if it happens, I'll just serve the stop according to my computer. I routinely served mandatory deco stops when I was on air a couple of years ago.

- "YOU NEVER GO IT ALONE but if you find yourself in that situation you abort." I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. If the currents are nasty or the dive is deep, I'm not going to let myself get separated. I'm hanging tight at Colombia Deep, Punta Sur, and Maracaibo. Now Colombia Shallow, in 30' of water with a light current is totally different. No way am I bailing out of the dive because we get strung out over the reef. I'll sail down to the end of the reef or until I hit my end pressure.

-Charles