Gear choices/critique and comment please!

[eelnoraa]

For HP120, first take look at it in person. It is a very long tank. Your height will play a role in selecting optimal IMO.

 

[AaronRiot]

I love my VT4, couldn't be happier with it. As a new diver, having my air, computer, and compass all in one tidy spot is great. The screen/button system is very easy to navigate, and although every now and them it does lose the signal it's for less than 5 seconds generally... no biggy in my opinion. I also, being new still, check my air A LOT... especially when on a deeper dive; I don't have the experience yet to gauge exactly what my sac is by feel and from there estimate where I'm at. Lots of looks and the nice exact countdown has been helpful in building a knowledge base for me personally.

I have found the Oceanic PC interface to be great too.

 

[Colliam7]

but unlike flying where I wasn't allowed to carry passengers during training solos, diving culture says I am obliged to expose a "buddy" to whatever hazards my ignorance might create. It's a really awkward and morally ambiguous situation. . . . FWIW I'm probably not really a menace to all around me, but the less you know, the more you think you know.

Everyone has to start somewhere. And, there are plenty of dive buddy teams in which equally inexperienced divers are matched. And, notwithstanding the grumbling some of us do about limitations in open water training, etc., etc., those buddy teams are, in general, surviving and thriving. That doesn't mean you will not benefit greatly from diving with more experienced divers, to continue your learning - you will. But, your success in linking up with other divers as a buddy will be influenced primarily by your attitude, not your gear.

The point is, I need to learn. I need to do that locally vs booking a trip somewhere where where I could mess with someone's vacation. That means exposing myself to the opinions and biases of instructors...so I show up with a totally unconventional BC, and unconventional hoses, and I am not going to be well practiced with my new gear (noob, remember), and I just wonder what the reaction will be. Which is my ignorant question: Is going off the beaten path with equipment going to restrict my diving education and buddy choices?

An interesting, and thoughtful, question. My immediate response is, 'No, it will not.' But, here are the caveats: First, I don't consider a BP and wing to be at all 'unconventional' for recreational, single tank diving. Yes, you see new divers much less commonly geared in BP/W rigs than in jacket or even soft, back-inflate BCDs. But, that doesn't make them 'unconventional'. Similarly, I don't consider a long hose primary second stage with a bungeed, necklace back-up second stage to be at all 'unconventional'. Yes, they are less commonly seen that regulators with shorter hoses, but that does not make them 'unconventional'. Second, if you show up to dive at a site and sense a negative reaction to your rig from a prospective buddy, look for another buddy. If you show up for a class in a BP/W and a long hose / bungeed necklace regulator set-up, and the instructor gives you a hard time about it, find another instructor - seriously. In fairness to prospective instructors, if you sign up for a class, let them know what your rig is. I have had only a handful of AOW students show up in a BP/W, for example. But, I welcome that situation when it occurs. I even try to point out the differences in rigs among students in each class, as a positive learning opportunity. If a student has a rig that they have not yet 'squared away' - they have lots of danglies, and Christmas ornaments clipped to an abundant supply of D-rings, I will offer suggestions and help to correct that situation. I do want to be sure that they are familiar with the rig - they do not have to be proficient - for their own safety. But, I always ask AOW students, in advance of the diving weekend, to tell me what kind of gear they are diivng so I know what to expect.

I was using an aluminum 80 yesterday and w/ empty tank and 6lbs of lead I sank easily. I didn't try less, but that's without any suit. I suspect a steel would take me to sinking with 0 lead (still sans suit). Is that acceptable?

I personally have no problem going with no weight added to my tank and BP.

Cost wise, aluminum 80s are about $180 with a din/yoke valve. The HP120 looks like $400 with the same sort of valve. Worth the difference? Also, do shops charge different amounts to fill different size tanks? Do they all fill HP to capacity?

There is nothing at all wrong with an AL80 - it is probably the single most common scuba cylinder in use in the Western Hemisphere. AL80s are substantially less expensive than steels. Whether steels are 'worth it' or not depends on what you want them to provide - more air, better / different bouyancy and trim, a way to take lead off your waist, etc. Although some people on SB report problems at some fill stations getting a full HP fill (to 3442 psi), I have never had that problem in the eastern US. I am not saying it might not be a problem, only that I have never encountered it.

Out of curiousity, why a 120? That is a big (long), heavy tank. While I have two of them, they are not my preferred steels; rather I like the HP 100.

 

[Them]

The HP120 thinking went like this:

Al80 is 26" long.
LP80 is 24" long.
HP100 is too.
Hey! So is this HP119! Fat at 8" diameter, but short at 24". Oh, but it is $400, vs $180 for the first AL80 I looked at, and I just checked the shop where I did my OW...basic yoke AL80 is $190 with free fills as long as I own it. Gotta think!
(later)
I better look that steel tank up again to see the buoyancy. What was it? $400 and around 120cf.... Here we go.....

D'oh!

Free fills makes for an interesting point to ponder. Considering that I pass within 100' of that shop twice a day it's hard to beat for convenience. I'll have to ask if they can order a steel cylinder for me w/the features I want.


So... Here's what I am thinking:
DIN 1st stage
2 second stage regs w/ long hose/short hose/necklace
2" white face SPG w/snap
(basically this: http://www.diverightinscuba.com/ca...ducts_id=3019{150}336{152}661{154}251{138}258 )

VT4 - (possibly without the air sender, probably AI)
? Redundant depth & compass - do I trust the computer ?
Worthington HP100 or HP119 steel cylinder with din/yoke valve
Skin/minimal suit (to start)
Illumination - still thinking this through - suggestions?
Of course lead and glue (all the little bits that hold the rest together)

As for continuing education questions, I guess there is one sure way to find out.

 

[Kitty_Kat]

Tank... Looks like a HP120 comes in at -11 to -2 (full to empty) buoyancy. A 80cf aluminum ranges from -1.8 to +2.6 lbs from what I can find.

I was using an aluminum 80 yesterday and w/ empty tank and 6lbs of lead I sank easily. I didn't try less, but that's without any suit. I suspect a steel would take me to sinking with 0 lead (still sans suit). Is that acceptable?

Cost wise, aluminum 80s are about $180 with a din/yoke valve. The HP120 looks like $400 with the same sort of valve. Worth the difference? Also, do shops charge different amounts to fill different size tanks? Do they all fill HP to capacity? The only place I've had a tank filled was "fills $8" but I don't know how any of that really works with different tanks.

I personally think that HP120s are unnecessary for most recreational dives/divers. I might be slightly biased since I can barely lift one , but remember that you have to think about your buddy's air supply as well. With a 120, you're most likely always going to be limited by your buddy's air supply (there are not a lot of people running around with steel 120s, let alone new divers...) and so the extra hassle of this tank is not worth it to me. I will stick with my HP80s and 100s which I like for the buoyancy characteristics.

But... If you are large enough that carrying a 120 around is no big deal, you might want to go for it! From my experiences, it doesn't hurt for larger guys to have the extra air, since they're probably going to use it faster. If this is the case, the slight cost of the HP120 over a HP100 or HP80 is negligible and therefore getting the larger tank makes sense. Make sure you've looked at these tanks before you get one so you know how large they really are though!

I've never had a problem getting a 3450/3500 psi fill in the western US. Some shops by me charge $1 extra for the HP fill, and some don't raise the price at all.

I'm going to throw this out there since no one else has, but very very very rarely will you get any sort of a good "deal" on a new tank. There are many many many used aluminum and steel tanks floating around that are still in great shape (often pretty close to new) so you might want to look into that for your first tank(s)!

 

[Them]

I'm a guy so what I think I can handle and what I should handle are probably different. I consider myself short but I guess it is all relative - I can just cross the 6' height line without shoes. A 38lb cylinder is not trivial but I'm sure I could get into the water wearing one.

Used is a very good point. For e.g. a SB member is selling basically exactly the cylinder I was considering (the 8" diameter/24" tall steel 120 or really 119) asking $285 for a cylinder that sells new for $400. Unfortunately it's local pickup in San Diego only and I won't be visiting SD for months but it shows that people are selling.

Now's the time for counterpoints against the HOG reg set on my list to come out, since I just clicked submit on the reg set I linked to earlier....

 

[antattack]

DIN- Why? Because if you go yoke, you can only use LP tanks. Someday, you may want to use DIN and LP tanks.

If you have only a few dives right now, go with an SPG and save your money. Or buy an inexpensive dive computer. But don't buy the most expensive, gee whiz computer like I did when I was starting out. I bought a very nice top of the line computer and it's internal battery failed after five years. The manufacturer had obsoleted that line of computer and I never even got to use the multi-gas capabilities. Lesson? Buy the technology when you need it, not before.

If you expect to "go pro" you will want the kind of gear your students will wear. If you expect to be a GUE teacher, it's a backplate and long hose rig. If you become a PADI dive master, you will be wearing the jacket sold at your LDS, Black hose primary second, yellow hose backup second. Why? because that's what the students wear and you don't want to confuse them. If you will just dive for your own entertainment, then this is a vote for backplate and long hose. The DIR rig is a bit more comfortable and the minimalistic style will cost more for quality gear, but cost less overall (the DIR method will cause you to bring only what you need-> fewer toys, more focus on diving!)

Aluminum vs. steel tanks? If you are just learning and live near warm water, aluminum. If you live near cold water- galvanized steel. Why? Because you aren't going to take your tanks on an airplane. You will dive them locally. Aluminum tanks are great in warm water where you don't need a lot of thermal protection and therefore, don't need to carry a lot of lead. Cold water divers need ballast, and steel tanks are negatively buoyant when empty- so steel. And steel tanks have a longer useful life, but that probably isn't the biggest concern.

Left shoulder. And get a light with a hard goodman handle, not a soft goodman. It's just easier to pass from hand to hand. Cannister lights are great if you will be doing a lot of diving in the dark, if you are in the tropics diving during the day, any small, light weight torch will do for the times when you want to look at the lobster sleeping in a hole.

---------- Post Merged at 09:27 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 09:26 PM ----------

And I just remembered, HP steel 100. It's shorter and lighter than a LP 85. Tell your friends you are diving a LP 80 and they will always compliment you on how good you are on air.

 

[TSandM]

If you become a PADI dive master, you will be wearing the jacket sold at your ​

LDS

, Black hose primary second, yellow hose backup second. Why? because that's what the students wear and you don't want to confuse them. If you will just dive for your own entertainment, then this is a vote for backplate and long hose. The DIR rig is a bit more comfortable and the minimalistic style will cost more for quality gear, but cost less overall (the DIR method will cause you to bring only what you need-> fewer toys, more focus on diving!)​

I have to take issue with this. I am a PADI DM, and I do all my open water class diving in my own dive gear, which includes a steel backplate and long hose. Yes, there are some shops that don't permit it. Ours -- somewhat reluctantly -- does.

To the OP -- it is a good question as to whether your gear, if you buy what we are suggesting, will be well accepted in any shop you go to. It may well not be. However, if you can find a shop that offers technical classes or an instructor with technical or cave training, you shouldn't have a problem with this setup, as it is pretty standard for technical and cave diving. As far as buddies go, in my experience, it's rare for a buddy even to NOTICE that your gear is any different from his -- and it's actually quite important that you go over the differences in equipment and procedures before the dive. But most buddies will just shrug and say, "Whatever . . . "

 

[Them]

Had to laugh at the "tell your friends it's an lp85..."

No plans to go pro. Not saying it's impossible (teaching things you are both good at and love can be very rewarding) but that cart is way before the horse right now.

Local conditions vary from warm (surface water temps were 89f last weekend) to cold but well short of ice. This is north Texas. If there is a kind of weather, we'll see it eventually.

Currently locked in gear choices:
SS BP/W with simple harness/crotch strap (dove with it yesterday)
HOG reg set w/ long hoses (submitted order to DRIS this eve)
1 pair size 12 boots - they worked ok

Everything else is up for change, even stuff I already have. The instructor of my OW class had spring straps on his fins...worked much better than the rubber and buckles on mine. I have a snorkel, sounds like most folks don't use 'em except for snorkeling and taking classes. I'm shopping lower volume masks now too.

Lights are kinda scaring me a bit. Massive price range and I'm not sure what the various styles are intended for.

 

[eelnoraa]

DIN- Why? Because if you go yoke, you can only use LP tanks. Someday, you may want to use DIN and LP tanks.

This is absolutely false. I, for one, use Yoke with single tank with HP100. I even use this for GUE fundamental.

---------- Post Merged at 10:42 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:20 PM ----------

Local conditions vary from warm (surface water temps were 89f last weekend) to cold but well short of ice. This is north Texas. If there is a kind of weather, we'll see it eventually.

Are you serious? you are talking about air temp right? Even Hawaii water doesn't get up to 89F in summer. And what is "well short of ice" temperature? 50Fs or 40Fs?

I double anywhere in the world that ocean temperature can change from 89F to "well short of ice" kind of temperature. Unless it is not open water.