Gavin vs. Silent Submersion

[JahJahwarrior]

I'd really like to see a serious discussion here.

ONLY of BRUSHED motor Gavins and SS's. ONLY of lead acid battery scooters. ONLY of Gavins and SS's. (no Dive Xtras, no Mako's, no Suex, or anything else)

Do Gavin's have any advantage over SS's?


I used a Gavin recently, and screwed it all up as apparently I rotated the batteries somehow...that doesn't happen with SS's. While discussing this with a diver, he mentioned that Gavin batteries can slide a little even while driving, or even during a dive, changing the balance of the scooter.

Additionally, the entire battery tray on the SS seems...well, more polished?

Gavin motors are all rewound, which means you can get a fast or slow one. SS motors are custom made by SS, and to better specifications than Gavin motors. The spindle thingy is thicker is key areas, the magnet cone thingy is cut from tubing not rolled steel so it is round, not "close to round." The brushboard uses better brushes and better wiring.

SS's can be turned off by unplugging a plug that is exposed as the nosecone, while Gavins are "always on."

SS use HDPE and have always used HDPE, while early Gavins used PVC, and used a variety of other materials for some areas, such as the nosecone. Perhaps it's not fair to compare older scooters, as SS has changed the motor, but before, SS was using the same motor as Gavins, so it's probably not too unfair to consider earlier scooters. I still see PVC Gavins selling for $2k...

Both use the same prop system.

I keep hearing things like "if you want to go downtown, you go on a Gavin."

Gavins were revolutionary for their time, but is there any reason why a SS is any worse than a Gavin? If anything, aren't they slightly better? Is there any reason the WKPP uses Gavins over SS's aside from the fact that they already have a huge fleet of Gavins? If all of their Gavins were destroyed, would they consider replacing them with SS's?

I have friends who use both, and i'm not trying to hate on Gavins, but I would like to know what other people think about them. I have a lot of respect for them, but I don't see any reason that an SS is any less of a scooter, and several reasons why an SS is superior.

 

[LiteHedded]

silents are better

 

[nadwidny]

I'd really like to see a serious discussion here

Absolutely, because this is the serious tech forum unlike the non-serious tech forum.

ONLY of BRUSHED motor Gavins and SS's. ONLY of lead acid battery scooters. ONLY of Gavins and SS's. (no Dive Xtras, no Mako's, no Suex, or anything else)

Nothing like starting a thread that is at least 5 years behind the times...

OK here's my take. I owned both back in the day. I liked the SS and hated the Gavin.

 

[Cave Diver]

I'd really like to see a serious discussion here.

ONLY of BRUSHED motor Gavins and SS's. ONLY of lead acid battery scooters. ONLY of Gavins and SS's. (no Dive Xtras, no Mako's, no Suex, or anything else)

Is there a particular reason why you want to limit to those two?

 

[ucfdiver]

When it comes to reliability, it really doesn't matter.

When it comes to a few slight changes that make it higher quality, the SS wins. Best value for the money used, Gavin wins.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

Nothing like starting a thread that is at least 5 years behind the times...

Many/most cave divers still use lead acid, and don't plan to change for a long time. Given that fact, as well as the fact that both gavins and SS's in lead acid format are rolling off the assembly line, I think this is still a pretty current issue. I know it's been debated before...these things have been around for a while

Is there a particular reason why you want to limit to those two?

Yep. Dive Xtras, SS and Gavin are the only serious technical scooter commonly seen in the US Market. Dive Xtras does not use lead acid or brushed motors, so we'd be comparing apples to oranges and that has been discussed to death already quite recently on multiple forums.

I don't know diddly squat about foreign scooters like Suex, aside from the fact that they don't seem to use the same motor or prop assembly as Gavin or SS, and most of them aren't lead acid from what I can tell.

Other scooters in the American market just aren't up to par with the SS and Gavin. Mako's are the only thing that come close and those, being limited to only one battery pack size, and using neither a rewound nor custom motor, fall into a light technical category.

Then of course there are other "toys" that just don't do anything for technical divers, like Seadoos.

There are old legends like Teknas and Aquazepps that are outdated.

And there are funky things like jetboots and the...that thing that straps on your back. Jetboots are....eh....yeah. And the thing that goes on your back, that company was adament that I not test their unit in caves.


Mostly, I see SS and Gavin as being very similar scooters. I have lots of friends with Gavins who laud the achievements made on a Gavin, and I want to know if there are people out there who see the Gavin as a higher quality or better product than the SS scooter.

I don't want to suggest that Gavin's are bad scooters, as they have proven themselves reliable on extreme exploration dives. However, does that mean they are automatically better than SS?

 

[ucfdiver]

SUEX has just as many lead acid models as SS/Gavin. I've driven one and they're really nice rides.

Hate to say it, but while I do like the silent handle slightly better, a scooter is a tool you clip in and mash a trigger. Finding $500 difference between any of the lead acid tech scooters is difficult for me to do.

Gavin- Cheap, and as we all know, getting one scooter means you need a second.
SS- Better overall build quality than the Gavin, heavy duty wiring, tube isn't cheap pvc (gavins will heat and unround), handle slightly more comfy. Stock rigging gets tangled in stages. Faster than Gavins.
Suex- Comfy handle like the SS, prop can come off if you get line in it and then go right back on. You can get high torque props for carrying tons of gear. I believe this motor has lesser load than gavin/ss's. Faster than SS's. They're the only lead acid scooter that has the multiple speed option.

Gavins were revolutionary for their time, but is there any reason why a SS is any worse than a Gavin? If anything, aren't they slightly better? Is there any reason the WKPP uses Gavins over SS's aside from the fact that they already have a huge fleet of Gavins? If all of their Gavins were destroyed, would they consider replacing them with SS's?

Currently, Silent nor Gavin offer any scooters similar to what the WKPP has migrated to, so only X's and Suex's can compete. If they replaced them today, you'd see XK1's and XK2's without a doubt. One thing I've learned to respect about that project however is that a major key to their success is their ability to time the rotation of divers and get everything accomplished in 2-3 days time per mission. That means standardization is crucial to success. With Gavins, if one fails they can swap parts in minutes and have a team in the water.

 

[rjack321]

Wow talk about framing the discussion to limit the topic.

I had a Mako, then a Gavin, now a X.

 

[LiteHedded]

does the motor compartment open up on the SS scooters? can you open it up and blow out the carbon buildup from the brushes? or work on it yourself without sending it to rodney?

 

[PfcAJ]

SUEX has just as many lead acid models as SS/Gavin. I've driven one and they're really nice rides.

Hate to say it, but while I do like the silent handle slightly better, a scooter is a tool you clip in and mash a trigger. Finding $500 difference between any of the lead acid tech scooters is difficult for me to do.

Gavin- Cheap, and as we all know, getting one scooter means you need a second.
SS- Better overall build quality than the Gavin, heavy duty wiring, tube isn't cheap pvc (gavins will heat and unround), handle slightly more comfy. Stock rigging gets tangled in stages. Faster than Gavins.
Suex- Comfy handle like the SS, prop can come off if you get line in it and then go right back on. You can get high torque props for carrying tons of gear. I believe this motor has lesser load than gavin/ss's. Faster than SS's. They're the only lead acid scooter that has the multiple speed option.


Currently, Silent nor Gavin offer any scooters similar to what the WKPP has migrated to, so only X's and Suex's can compete. If they replaced them today, you'd see XK1's and XK2's without a doubt. One thing I've learned to respect about that project however is that a major key to their success is their ability to time the rotation of divers and get everything accomplished in 2-3 days time per mission. That means standardization is crucial to success. With Gavins, if one fails they can swap parts in minutes and have a team in the water.

I do not like the XK at all, not even a little bit. The idea is neato, but the application sucks.

A thing I do like about the gavin over the SS is that I can put whatever batteries in there that I like and I don't have to send it to anyone to have it worked on (heck, I can do it myself).

The build quality of the SS is better, fo sho, but I can buy 3 used standard gavins for the price of a new SS. The economy of that is pretty clear.