oxyhacker
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Sound typical of the hyperbole that gets said when one has a product to sell. If he really ever saw a 30% error he ought take a basic mix course or read a good book or two before trying to write about it himself.
How long it takes a mix to homogenize is, interestingly enough, still a somewhat controversial subject. Nitrox seems to mix pretty quickly, He a little slower but I've never noticed much change after, say, 2-4 hours, but others swear they do for as long as 12 so it makes sense to wait as long as possible. Don't know if the differences are due to hardware, technique or just imagination, but this is not something you have to take on faith and I always suggest that new mixers sample their mixes at intervals over 24 hours, until they got enough of a feel for it to reach their own conclusions. In the old days you used to hear all sorts of strange stories, like about how changing the position of the tank while analyzing would change the reading, as the He floated up or down, and how the He would leak out selectively causing the FHe to drop over time. You don't hear these as much anymore, but there's still far from agreement on how long to wait
Oh, it's odd that while in the quote he seems to be pushing the analyzer as a solution to the real/ideal gas conflict and the problem of slow homogenization it will in reality do neither - you still have to compensate for compressibility when you do your premix calculations, long before the mix can be analyzed, and an He analyzer will do nothing to make the gases homogenize faster! It will help detirmine when the mix has finally stabilized, but so will an O2 analyzer for a fraction of the price.
How long it takes a mix to homogenize is, interestingly enough, still a somewhat controversial subject. Nitrox seems to mix pretty quickly, He a little slower but I've never noticed much change after, say, 2-4 hours, but others swear they do for as long as 12 so it makes sense to wait as long as possible. Don't know if the differences are due to hardware, technique or just imagination, but this is not something you have to take on faith and I always suggest that new mixers sample their mixes at intervals over 24 hours, until they got enough of a feel for it to reach their own conclusions. In the old days you used to hear all sorts of strange stories, like about how changing the position of the tank while analyzing would change the reading, as the He floated up or down, and how the He would leak out selectively causing the FHe to drop over time. You don't hear these as much anymore, but there's still far from agreement on how long to wait
Oh, it's odd that while in the quote he seems to be pushing the analyzer as a solution to the real/ideal gas conflict and the problem of slow homogenization it will in reality do neither - you still have to compensate for compressibility when you do your premix calculations, long before the mix can be analyzed, and an He analyzer will do nothing to make the gases homogenize faster! It will help detirmine when the mix has finally stabilized, but so will an O2 analyzer for a fraction of the price.
cyklon_300 once bubbled...
Posters on the Nitrox Equip thread were discussing the rate at which high pressure gas mixtures reach a state of homogeneity. Some (including me) were under the impresssion that this occurred in a very short time period (approaching instantaneously) in a scuba cylinder.
Others stated that they allowed periods of time and/or physically agitated the cylinders to promote reaching equilibirium.
I just found the following statement concerning trimix which I thought was quite interesting:
"It is now evident that helium based mixes are extremely vulnerable to real gas mix laws and can be more than 30% in error and/or can take more than 12 hours to reach a homogenous state. This robust, reliable unit quickly determines exactly what gas mixing has occurred and is an inexpensive and mandatory component for every mixed gas application. I will never again use a mix, or allow a mix to be used by a student or customer without first testing it with the helium analyzer. To do so otherwise would be irresponsible and reckless. - Bill Nadeau
Bill Nadeau is the Proprietor of Deep Fathoms in Nanaimo, British Columbia. Bill has authored many texts on Scuba Diving including the IANTD Gas Blending Manual and IANTD Mixed Gas Blending Training Slides. He is also a member of IANTD Board of Advisors and an IANTD Trimix and Trimix Blending Instructor Trainer Trainer (ITT). Some of his many distinguished achievements include:
British Columbia Safety Council on Diving Advisory Board Member
First Mixed Gas Cave Dive in Canada - 1998
Deepest Cave Dive in Canada - 262ffw - 1998
The statement of "12 hours to reach a homogenous state" is what caught my eye.
Any physicists or gas blenders care to comment?