Future plans for doubles and lots of questions

[Lukiedukie]

HI all I am in the process of building a shopping list for my first set of doubles. I am Leaning towards a set of LP 104s and I have a few question on some things. First as of right now I have plans for TDI advance Nitrox/Deco or Padi Tec Rec classes but I am wanting to get comfortable in a set of doubles before I start the course. This probally not happen till next spring so I ahve soem time to get shopping.

My first question is what size wing should I be looking for? I figure that as first the most I will be carrying is the double LP104s, Canister Light, and possibly up to two 40cf stages. Yes I have talked to both insturctors (TDI-Padi TEC REC) and one said a 60lbs wing and the other said anything above 40lbs. So I am confused on this any realworld expirence would be great.

I will be buying my first drysuit (not sure which Bare tech HD or DUI TLS-350) and I am leaning towards a trilam suit and I am curious if I should get a aluminum plate or stick with the stainless I am diving now? I do have a couple of local people that are helping me make smart deicions on things but they are in cave country for the weekend and I am wanting to be able to bounce a few things off them when they return.

On a canister light I am leaning towards Salvo or Sartek 18w is there something else I should be looking at? Am I missing something else?

As for my plans for this summer I am planing on getting my Padi Rescue/EFR and a few Dan o2, neoulogical, AED, and Advance o2 and t o dive my but off.

Any ideas or information on my future gear purchases or classes would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

Luke

 

[fishb0y]

Stick with a SS BP, the more weight off your belt, the better in my opinion. As far as doubles go, see what the group of people you dive with have. Here on Oahu, my team dives in Double AL80s (obviously no dry suits).

 

[JeffG]

I use a 38lb wing for my twin 130's (same as 104's just rated for a higher pressure) In fresh water, the wing is almost not enough...salt water, no problem.

 

[David P]

I have double hp120s in the pool my DR Rec wing (45-50lbs?) will float my rig fine. I just got a leak in my wing and borowwed a 55lb lift wing and it was more than adequate in the ocean. The boat I was on had one other diver in doubles, he had an aluminum backplate, 40 deco, and scooter. He had to wear a weight belt with I think he said 8 lbs.

 

[cool_hardware52]

My first question is what size wing should I be looking for? I figure that as first the most I will be carrying is the double LP104s, Canister Light, and possibly up to two 40cf stages. Yes I have talked to both insturctors (TDI-Padi TEC REC) and one said a 60lbs wing and the other said anything above 40lbs. So I am confused on this any realworld expirence would be great.

PST 104's are heavy tanks, look up the specs. Wing lift depends on a number of factors, tanks being one, both the weight of the cylinders and the weight of the gas. The buoyancy of your exposure suit is another factor. Rigged AL 40's don't weight very much. They will a very small effect on the total weighting picture.

If I had to guess based on the info you have provided I say a 40 lb wing could be a little small in fresh water.

I will be buying my first drysuit (not sure which Bare tech HD or DUI TLS-350) and I am leaning towards a trilam suit and I am curious if I should get a aluminum plate or stick with the stainless I am diving now? I do have a couple of local people that are helping me make smart deicions on things but they are in cave country for the weekend and I am wanting to be able to bounce a few things off them when they return.

Lightweight plates are the answer when using a SS plate will leave the diver overweighted. The combination of warm water, fresh water and large heavy steel tanks often leaves the diver overweighted. Is this your situtation? Hard to say without knowing more about the initial buoyancy of your undergarment and DS, and exactly what gear you may be carrying.

Regards,


Tobin

 

[Lukiedukie]

PST 104's are heavy tanks, look up the specs. Wing lift depends on a number of factors, tanks being one, both the weight of the cylinders and the weight of the gas. The buoyancy of your exposure suit is another factor. Rigged AL 40's don't weight very much. They will a very small effect on the total weighting picture.
If I had to guess based on the info you have provided I say a 40 lb wing could be a little small in fresh water.
Lightweight plates are the answer when using a SS plate will leave the diver overweighted. The combination of warm water, fresh water and large heavy steel tanks often leaves the diver overweighted. Is this your situtation? Hard to say without knowing more about the initial buoyancy of your undergarment and DS, and exactly what gear you may be carrying.

Regards,


Tobin

Thanks Tobin I am hoping to pick up one of your new wings pretty soon. As for my DS I am not sure what I am going to get but I am leanig towards a trilam suit and I am thinking that I will get a 100 and 200gr undersuit. My diving is only 50 degrees at depth and warmer above thanks to thermalclines, but winter is coming and I am planning on diving though out the winter. Thanks again all

 

[loosebits]

Hey Luke, it's hard to be too warm, I would go with the 200gr or to start with you can just try some undergarments at Campmor (http://www.campmor.com/). You'll want a polypropylene base layer for its wicking properties and then you can add on from that. I would definitely recomend a trilam suit as they are light weight, easy to don/doff and dry fast. Front zips are great but rear zips will save you a good chunk of change. A pee-valve is an absolute necessity or you'll find yourself intentionally avoiding liquids before a dive. PYou may think you can easily hold it for an hour dive but as soon as your hands get wet and you know you can't go, you'll desperately need to go. Once you get your brand new suit, the first thing you need to do is turn it inside out, throw it in the backyard and piss all over it- it's going to happen eventually anyway, you might as well get it over with. Pockets are great too but if you go with DUI, they'll charge you quite a bit for a set of pockets. Send your suit off to Steve Gamble (http://www.gamblescuba.com/) and he'll put them in (and a pee valve) for a fraction of what DUI charges). His work is really first class and everyone in Floida swears by him.

If you go with a jumpsuit style undergarment, make sure it has enough length in it so you can reach your valves. A suit that fits perfectly when you're standing up will be too short when you are reaching behind your back to do a valve drill.

Now, you can go take a drysuit class or you can come diving with Rick and I sometime and we'll be happy to show you the ropes. Nothing difficult about diving dry.

On the plate, you may be a bit light with empty tanks on an AL plate as most steel tanks today are neutral when empty but with 500 psi in them, you should be fine depending on your undergarments. You can always add a v-weight to your plate to get a few more pounds when you need it.

On the light, I've had both a Sartek and a Salvo. I definitly recomend the Salvo. I like the cannister more, the Brightstar bulbs are much more robust than the Sarteck WA bulbs and you can get a remote ballast where the bulk of the ballest is in the can, not on the light head. Finally the color temperature of the 21W Salvo is a lot higher than the 18W Sartek.

 

[ianr33]

Agree with the comments about the wing size. I was diving borrowed 104's recently with my 40 lb wing in freshwater,it worked but only just.A 50 lb wing would have been better.

 

[karstdvr]

HI all I am in the process of building a shopping list for my first set of doubles. I am Leaning towards a set of LP 104s and I have a few question on some things. First as of right now I have plans for TDI advance Nitrox/Deco or Padi Tec Rec classes but I am wanting to get comfortable in a set of doubles before I start the course. This probally not happen till next spring so I ahve soem time to get shopping.

My first question is what size wing should I be looking for? I figure that as first the most I will be carrying is the double LP104s, Canister Light, and possibly up to two 40cf stages. Yes I have talked to both insturctors (TDI-Padi TEC REC) and one said a 60lbs wing and the other said anything above 40lbs. So I am confused on this any realworld expirence would be great.

I will be buying my first drysuit (not sure which Bare tech HD or DUI TLS-350) and I am leaning towards a trilam suit and I am curious if I should get a aluminum plate or stick with the stainless I am diving now? I do have a couple of local people that are helping me make smart deicions on things but they are in cave country for the weekend and I am wanting to be able to bounce a few things off them when they return.

On a canister light I am leaning towards Salvo or Sartek 18w is there something else I should be looking at? Am I missing something else?

As for my plans for this summer I am planing on getting my Padi Rescue/EFR and a few Dan o2, neoulogical, AED, and Advance o2 and t o dive my but off.

Any ideas or information on my future gear purchases or classes would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

Luke

Sometimes it is easier to answer the question by backing into the equation. What are your plans and goals for diving with these configurations,and that will answer the question of what may be the most appropriate things for you.

 

[PerroneFord]

The other thing of note is that by the time you are diving with a couple bottles slung, you'll probably own a selection of wings. Hell, I've got 3 wings and I won't have a bottle on my side for a year or more. You'll probably want more than one plate too.

Why do you want 104s for a first set of doubles?? Have you tried any doubles in the water? I remeber my FIRST experience with doubles. My instructor put out a set of 72s. I asked if I could try it with my 27# singles wing. He smiled and said sure.. so as I rigged that up he walked to the shop and brought back a 45# wing and a 60# wing. I got in the pool with the 72s and my SS backplate, and nearly tore the bottom out of the pool! The OPV was screaming as I tried to add gas. Then he handed me the 45. That was MUCH better. Then I asked if I could try the LP95s. Took about half or more of the gas in the wing go get me neutral in the pool. At depth it would have been worse. So he handed me the 60#. With the 60# and the LP95s I had buoyancy, but felt like I was on a life raft! BIG difference from my AL80 with the 27# wing.

104s are HUGE tanks to start with. That's just my opinion. Slightly overpressured, they could let you get in 3 dives in OW. I get two nice dives in my double 80s.

As for additional classes, I know everyone is gonna groan, but take DIRF or find a mentor to take you through something similar and to a similar standard. Its really a good measure of how your buoyancy, trim, and comfortability are in the water. It did a lot to open my eyes. And even though I was on the "5 year plan* to tech diving, it slowed me WAY down. I see that as a positive.

Good luck in your quest. But I'd seriously recommend getting some AL80s doubled up before you get those 104s. They always make a nice backup set later, they're relatively cheap, and great for bottomless diving or ocean diving.