Further course, no deep diving?

[Steve_C]

Since we'll mostly be vacation divers, this might mean sending my husband to classes and learning from him.

Having your husband a better diver is not a bad idea but is far from your only option.

You can just hire a dive master to dive with you on at least some of your dives. That is often cheaper than having your husband dive with you. Just be sure to tell the DM that you are open to suggestions and welcome any scuba advice that they have. (Not everybody is that way). Of course you could both dive with the DM.

There is a quirk in the professional system that if you are in a class, then a DM cannot be the first to show you something for which you will be evaluated. However, if you are diving with them outside of a class with no card involved, then they can offer you advice or pointers. Its a liability thing in part.

 

[Skittl1321]

Thanks for the information. The stuff I found on the PADI website and the book definitely made it look like AOW was required for Rescue. It is good to know that a) AOW may be achievable without getting to really deep dives and b) I don't need it anyway.

Rescue seems like a fairly necessary course to dive safely and independently.

 

[HIGHwing]

If you're ok at 60' then you can get your AOW. 61' will qualify for the deep dive in your AOW course. Just communicate with your instructor when you sign up.

Since you're getting familiar with the PADI Instructor Manual as "Divemaster Candidate", please review the Open Water Diver standards and see just how deep a student needs to go to achieve certification.

(Assuming we know the minimum depth for a dive is 15 feet)

Page 41: Depth
Open Water Dives 1 & 2 may not exceed 40 feet
Open Water Dives 3 & 4 may not exceed 60 feet
*If three dives in one day, you cannot exceed 40 feet for the last dive

Assume Dive 1 is to 20 feet
Assume Dive 2 is to 20 feet
Assume Dive Flexible Skill "CESA" happens from 22 feet
Assume Dive Three Skill "Descent with Reference" goes to 22 feet
Assume Dive Four Skill "Descent without Reference" goes to 22 feet

What we just learned is the whole dive sequence can be completed in 22 feet of water - no problem. Doesn't sound realistic? Well, maybe, it is. When you have a second thermocline at 27 feet and zero visibility there you can get inspired to shallow up your class in a hurry. In the local mud puddle we use for training going to 60 feet is an advanced dive by my personal standards. 39-42 degree water, it's dark, very low visibility, and regulator freezing is a serious possibility if not likelihood.

It's also important to remember the incremental step could be (using my scenario) a diver is literally going from 22 feet worth of experience to holding a card allowing a 100ft dive with a buddy (with presumably the same experience level). While I agree with you in spirit, good to 60, good to 61, I wanted to take a moment and show you that a student could be looking at a several hundred percent increase in depth. Remember this student could be on dive number nine, zero dives without supervision and signs up for that Mid-Atlantic Wreck dive that requires AOW. Just something to ponder when you realize those training dives were only required to be :20 minutes or 50cu/ft to be legal.

Is three hours of total diving enough time to be trudging around the bottom of a wreck unsupervised? That's another thread, I suspect.




---------- Post added June 4th, 2013 at 09:17 PM ----------

Thanks for the information. The stuff I found on the PADI website and the book definitely made it look like AOW was required for Rescue. It is good to know that a) AOW may be achievable without getting to really deep dives and b) I don't need it anyway.

Rescue seems like a fairly necessary course to dive safely and independently.

Stick around and you'll learn a lot!

 

[RJP]

The one thing I read over and over here is that OW doesn't really prepare a diver for much and after 20 or so dives, you really ought to go into AOW and get more training.

I suggest you spend more time diving and less time reading - much less believing - everything you see posted on SB. Plus, I bet if you go back and check what you've read "over and over here on SB" you'll see that it's the same 4-5 people comprising the majority of the content in this regard. (I could probably list their names here, if you'd like.) The one good thing you CAN pick up here is the need to find a good, highly recommended instructor. If you do that, whether or not you are "prepared for much" is entirely up to you... which is as it should be.

My OW training was certainly sufficient to get me started, but I also applied myself to becoming a good, competent, aware diver. By logged dive #15 I was planning and executing wrecks dives off the NJ coast.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Forget AOW and "adventure diver". Find an instructor from an agency that doesn't require such nonsense. Get rescue, then take UW Nav from an instructor that really knows how to teach it. Not a by the book course as most of the books suck. Then just dive and don't worry about deep. Mosty ops will look at a rescue card and assume you did advanced anyway. They don't know any better.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

As Nitrogen isn't absorbed into bones, but rather fat and muscle tissues, I really don't think this is an issue.

This is tangential to the OP's question, but . . . what?

 

[hroark2112]

Since you're getting familiar with the PADI Instructor Manual as "Divemaster Candidate", please review the Open Water Diver standards and see just how deep a student needs to go to achieve certification.

(Assuming we know the minimum depth for a dive is 15 feet)

Page 41: Depth
Open Water Dives 1 & 2 may not exceed 40 feet
Open Water Dives 3 & 4 may not exceed 60 feet
*If three dives in one day, you cannot exceed 40 feet for the last dive

Assume Dive 1 is to 20 feet
Assume Dive 2 is to 20 feet
Assume Dive Flexible Skill "CESA" happens from 22 feet
Assume Dive Three Skill "Descent with Reference" goes to 22 feet
Assume Dive Four Skill "Descent without Reference" goes to 22 feet

What we just learned is the whole dive sequence can be completed in 22 feet of water - no problem. Doesn't sound realistic? Well, maybe, it is. When you have a second thermocline at 27 feet and zero visibility there you can get inspired to shallow up your class in a hurry. In the local mud puddle we use for training going to 60 feet is an advanced dive by my personal standards. 39-42 degree water, it's dark, very low visibility, and regulator freezing is a serious possibility if not likelihood.

It's also important to remember the incremental step could be (using my scenario) a diver is literally going from 22 feet worth of experience to holding a card allowing a 100ft dive with a buddy (with presumably the same experience level). While I agree with you in spirit, good to 60, good to 61, I wanted to take a moment and show you that a student could be looking at a several hundred percent increase in depth. Remember this student could be on dive number nine, zero dives without supervision and signs up for that Mid-Atlantic Wreck dive that requires AOW. Just something to ponder when you realize those training dives were only required to be :20 minutes or 50cu/ft to be legal.

Is three hours of total diving enough time to be trudging around the bottom of a wreck unsupervised? That's another thread, I suspect.

First, I'm not doing PADI DM....I'm doing SDI...but that's tangential

The 61' comment was directed towards the deep diver requirement for AOW. You don't have to go to 100' for AOW, just deeper than 60'. If he can do that, he can get his AOW card if he so desires.

That being said, the fact that he knows his personal limits and his own comfort level regarding depth, it is HIGHLY unlikely that he'll do a 100' wreck dive with me off the NC coast any time soon. Sad to say, from my own perspective, since there's some cool stuff down there, but he knows his own limits and my advice regarding his ability to complete the dives required for AOW should be accurate, even by PADI standards.

Edit: Oops...she, not he. Sorry!

 

[GillScales]

I really despise the way some of the agencies have dumbed down the basic courses over the years.
when I did my OW it was iirc 16 class/pool days over 8 weeks,almost the whole summer lol, and the instructors (PADI) had us do things which are now not taught until dive master course. I also seem to recall they were only letting 15-16 yr olds like meself take the class if we had red cross or boy scout life saving certs (may have been just that instructors requirement.) now I see folks getting certified in a weekend, not really knowing anything about: buoyancy, equipment,tables, history or much of anything really. We also walked uphill to class both ways

 

[ajduplessis]

Okay, verify this with DAN, because I could be completely wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Cervical Fusion (My mom had it done) involves bone right? So, my mom also had scar tissue on the bone, just like any broken bone. As Nitrogen isn't absorbed into bones, but rather fat and muscle tissues, I really don't think this is an issue. Add in a serious level of conservatism (like Nitrox using air tables/computer) and an extra long safety stop, and I'd bet my rebreather that you got nothing to worry about.

I really hope this is a typo on your behalf :shocked2:

Nitrogen is absorbed into all tissue types in your body, including bone!!!! Nothing is excluded.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

DAN Europe put out a response to a question from a diver with a bone injury that said, as I read it, 'be careful diving (if at all) with bone injuries because new/damaged bone and old bone will have different densities and the faster uptake/offgas characteristics of that anomalous section of bone could cause localized DCS issues - the bigger the section of new/damaged bone, the bigger the concern.'

The problem with "fresh" bone or soft tissue lesions and diving is mainly related to the altered circulation and blood perfusion which is typical of repairing (healing) tissue. This may generate an altered uptake and offgassing pattern of the inert gas breathed during a dive, with possible facilitation of localized DCI symptoms and signs.The larger the interested bone, the more likely and serious the potential problem. Obviously this also relates to the imposed decompression stress: i.e. a "heavy" dive could be definitely problematic, while a "light" dive, with limited depth and bottom time and, consequently, limited inert gas uptake, may be perfectly safe from the decompression point of view.​

DAN Europe - Bone fracture

Normally I'd think 'eh, you win some, you lose some - take the injury for a spin and see what happens'; but with the anomalous region being so close to the spinal cord, I'd be pretty wary, too.​