Full Face Mask with Communication

[d4jaj1]

Hello,

I'm interested in moving to a full-faced mask for the purposes of communicating with my diving partner during dives. I am proficient with hand signals, but it is much easier to speak while I'm filming. I'm looking for communications setups that allow me to speak to another person on the same system without cables between divers or to the surface.

With that said, I have a few questions about getting a full-face mask.

1) I'm PADI certified, but I don't see anything in the certification path specifically for full-faced masks. How/where can I go to get comfortable and/or certified on these prior to putting my life on the line?
2) With full face masks, I'm assuming leaking is a bigger issue than with regular masks. Since fit is the number one factor in leaks - is silicone better than rubber? In doing a Google search, there didn't appear to be many sizing options with full face masks either.
3) Of what I've seen thus far, the masks are sold separately from the communications rig. I've seen masks from $200 to $899 and communications rigs from $300 to $1600. I know quality is always a factor - but what about features? For example, cheap GPS devices don't include Text-2-Speech - you'll pay another $100 to get this advanced feature. What's the analog to full-face masks??
4) Since I'm a recreational diver 130 ft max, what should I expect to spend on a mask/comm. unit combo? I'm guessing the $1600 price tag I’ve seen is for Search & Rescue, Commercial, etc. diving (greater than 130ft).

Is there anything else I need to know? If anyone can point me to a good article on full faced masks so I can read up on them, I'd appreciate it. Also, personal experience would be helpful as well.

Thanks

 

[HowardE]

check out the OTS Guardian with the Buddy Phone. It's easy, and good clear wireless communications.

 

[d4jaj1]

check out the OTS Guardian with the Buddy Phone. It's easy, and good clear wireless communications.

ummm - there's been a recall on these masks - oceantechnologysystems.com/GFFM-NOTICE.html.

Any other ideas?

 

[todd_18]

Don't let the recall scare you away from this mask, they have a good temporary fix for the problem now, and will soon have a permanent fix. It is a great mask. As for FFM leaking, this is NOT an issue, the only way they might leak is leaking some air bubble out, water will not leak into the mask.

 

[M_Bipartitus]

1) SDI has a course, but may be hard to find. In Atlanta it may help to find a volunteer for the GA aquarium who is willing to show you the ropes. They use FFM there with the surface supplied air stations in the aquarium.

2) A bigger issue is OOA procedures as you generally have to remove the whole mask to use an octo, leaving you without a mask or air source.

3) It can be mask-dependent what you can get, but the Inspero(sp?)/AGA mask is likely to have the most options.

4) There aren't many recreational masks, only the pubic safety/commercial masks. Aside from the $1600 options, you only have $100-$300 masks that do not include a regulator and are not as easy to use comms with. You may need to add $150-250 to your total for additional hoses and a gas switching block (allows using a pony without removing the mask)

 

[HowardE]

ummm - there's been a recall on these masks - oceantechnologysystems.com/GFFM-NOTICE.html.

Any other ideas?

The recall was a preventative measure to fix the face shield, which wasn't a real issue, but could have been. I dive mine all the time. New masks come with the updated face shield.

 

[DM95]

I have the Scubapro FFM and the Guardian. Both are good. I give the edge to the Guardian though.

The one good thing with the Scubapro ($325) is the fact you can switch regulators if one fails underwater by using the octopus adapter kit and just screwing the old one out and the new one in. This avoids having to remove the mask and switch to a regular mask as a back up. You can also use comm in the extra port on the left side of the mask while the right side is a surface breathing module.

 

[muddysquirrel]

The vast majority of my FFM experience has been with the AGA, so some of this may not be applicable to other mask designs.

1)While there are a few tricks (mostly in getting the mask seated properly and equalizing), a FFM isn't terribly different than diving a mask/reg. Between a quick tutorial (from whomever you buy the mask from) and 5-10 easy familiarization dives you should be able to get very comfortable very quickly with it. While I believe there are a few PADI distinctive specialty classes out there, all the classes I'm familiar with are PSD specific and cover FFM as part of an equipment system.

That being said, there are some definite differences when moving to a FFM. On the plus side, you'll never have to put defog on your mask again.
Depending on mask style, you may have to learn a different way of equalizing, e.g. nose block vs pinching your nose.
As M Bipartitius said, unless you have a switch block or a pod style FFM, bailing out to a different gas source means bailing out of your mask... this carries additional complications in cold water. Carrying a conventional mask in a pocket is a very good idea.
I don't know if you dive wet or dry... if you dive dry with a FFM and a hood you don't want to use argon.
Positive pressure vs demand: you'll want demand. Even without a positive pressure mask, your air consumption is going to increase slightly in the FFM.
Positioning the spider properly isn't difficult, but it does take a little practice and someone showing you the right way to do it.

2)Because of the 5 point spider, you will still get a very good seal with a FFM (particularly if you're sealing to a latex dry suit hood). Honestly, with my beard and mustache I have far more trouble with leaks in a standard mask than an AGA. The only problems I've seen with fit is folks with very narrow faces; they tend to have a slight leak at the temple. It's generally a very minor problem and there are a number of work-arounds. I haven't heard of any differences with silicon vs rubber skirts.

4) You're going to spend some money on this. My experience is from the PSD side, but one of our masks fully set up (FFM, ABV, comms, switch block) is north of $2000 retail. You should be able to get by recreationally with just the mask and comms, but this will not be a cheap purchase. Shop around and be sure of what you're buying/ what you need before you get it.

Hope that helps.

 

[Islandheart]

Wow are you in luck.

We are the new dealers for OTS in Georgia. We are located just north of ATL up 575 and have the Guardians in stock with Coms.

You'll find the Guardians have the safety recall fix installed and there are a number of us locally that dive the Guardian. It is a big improvement over the AGA in sealing and the commos with your dive partner and others around you, take Rec diving, to a whole new level.

Today you can expect to spend about $1299 for a Guardian with Coms.

The training curve is more along the line of 3-5. We highly recommend, you have a couple of pool sessions before open water diving with the FFM.

The Certs are a little behind times on FFM, as it's just beginning to come into it's own in the Rec. diving realm. PADI, SSI and I believe a couple of others have cert courses but those that are quailified to teach the class are few and far between.

Clearing a FFM is not that much different from clearing a normal mask, but it is different. As is equalizing, as mentioned before.

When you setup your Air Delivery system you'll have an Octo as normal.

Here's a FFM Rig setup I just completed using a Zeagle FlatHead7 as the 1st and used Mil-flex hoses and quick-disconnects and swivels.

Give me a shout and we can get together for a hands on inspection.

Best Regards,
Bob Collins