FULL FACE MASK : How's new OCEANREEF's NEPTUNE SPACE?

[you89]

Hello, I'm new to this forum.

I recently discovered that the pain around my jaw joint is a serious TMJ problem.

In these days, the pain around my jaw joint is so severe that I could not "bite" regulators for more than 30mins, therefore I had to quit it.

Although I wanted to buy the neptune 2, after hearing all sorts of bad things about it, I decided not to.(neptune 2 is around $450)

After some research on the internet, I found these two masks in my interest :

1. AGA masks
2. Oceanreef Neptune Space
<This is new for 2006, and one diving shop told me that this new version is even better than the AGA masks, never like a piece-of-junk previous version.(what they called)>

Please suggest one for me, under $850.

OH, and one more thing, an aquaintanace of mine is just starting with open water course. He has some TMJ problems like me, but much serious, so could just-beginning diver use a full-face mask in his training?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You need to list some more info in your profile. Welcome to the board! You do not say what your experience level is and where you are located. The experience level would have a definite impact on recommending a full face. An inexperienced diver should be very careful about jumping into a full face as there are serious additional training issue involved with this. OOA, air sharing, and perhaps having no mask on for the ascent all need to be considered. I just dove the AGA for the first time on new year's day. Was neat but it involved 3 extra hours of surface prep from my instructor before I felt comfortable taking it down.I dive alot in cold ,low vis situations and he had no problem letting me try it because of my skill level as a DM candidate but I used alot more air and equalizing was a problem at first. But to get back to your questions. I'd recommend first relaxing. You do not need to bite the mouthpiece very hard to hold it in. I've seen newbies bite through one wing. Way to much pressure. You only need to bite down gently on it. There is also the comfo bite which requires even less pressure as it has a piece that goes across the wings and rests against the back of your front teeth. I use this and practically no bite force is required. There is also the rite bite mouthpiece that comes in different bite configurations and is fitted by your lds using a bite strip that dentists also use. And lastly the ones that you soak in hot water for awhile and then bite down on to custom for your bite are available. As for your buddy I doubt any good instructor would allow the use of a full face unless there are some SERIOUS medical problems(aka Mattthewonderboy) that would prevent the use of a conventional. I don't think TMJ qualifies as this. I don't minimze the discomfort but BOW requires certain skills to be performed that would be way beyond the avg students abilities with a full face for the first time with no previous dive experience. And why go to the extra expense when the answer could be a 10-20 dollar solution?Again you still need to give more info. Fill out your profile and introduce your self.

 

[mrbill4]

I use the Neptune Space, and i love it. i have taken some additional classes, and have learned some great things. I have tried the AGA, the neptune II and the Space, and i like the Space best. I find that it sucks to wear the mask on the surface, or floating in the water waiting for a desent, but the reward on the bottom is well worth it. It has a better field of vision, easier to breathe, and communications rock. It does take some getting used to, and as a result your air consumption will suffer until you master it. However, if you are willing to take the time for learning how to properly use it, it is a nice addition to your SCUBA experience.

 

[james croft]

JimLap nailed it. There are a lot of mouthpieces out there and require little effort to hold in place. I would try that. Depending on the ffm there can be jaw fatigue depending on how it fits and how the spider is adjusted. That can cause discomfort on the jaw after a while. I have dove a variety of ffm such as the aga, neptunes, exo-26 and various Kirby Morgan bandmasks. Each has it's pros and cons but the only mask on your list worthy of consideration is the aga. There is no comparison between the the aga, which almost all public safety divers and the military use, and the Neptune type masks which is not a good design for a mask in my opinion. I am an aga technician. I don't sell them, I dive them. Look at ebay. Lots of used neptunes dumped on there by disapointed divers. I would not begin diving with a ffm as a solution to a problem that can be resolved with the proper mouthpiece and a hose with the correct length. By the way, the most comfortable regulator I dive is an old double hose reg as the mouthpiece is held in your mouth effortlessly.

 

[mntdiver]

Everything you've read about the Neptune II applies to the Space. They changed the reg a little, shortened it up a bit. Added a little lipstick to the pig, made it prettier. It still has the same basic problems as the original. The last time I dived one, it fogged in 54 degree water. This tells me that the airflow is not over the lens. Although I've not seen any test data, makes you wonder what the CO2 washout is like. Still all the bad design features that it originally had. It's what you get when you take a gas mask and convert it to diving. The comms are a poor copy of the original. As for the dive shop that says it&#8217;s better than an AGA, well, ask if they&#8217;ve dived an AGA. Also, what are they diving on the weekends? If it&#8217;s so good, why aren&#8217;t they diving it?

There are three reasons to dive a full face mask: Environmental, physiological and communications. In the order as required. While it does take additional training and familiarity, I wouldn't shy away from it if you have the requirement or the desire. Communications add to the safety factor of diving, probably more than anything else. Analyze almost any accident and you'll find that if the diver had the ability to ask for help, they might not be a statistic. As for an out of air emergency, stay on top of it. I ran out of air once in 1979 at 90 feet on the Mezpah off Ft. Lauderdale. I've seriously tried not to do it again. It's worked so far. You'll hear lots of how dangerous full face masks are. I can tell you that more people have been saved by them than harmed. As with any piece of equipment and diving, learning how to use it properly is the key. The act of breathing underwater is dangerous without proper training.

You&#8217;ll need to determine whether you want to go through the expense of a full face mask and the time to learn to use one. Comms are somewhat of a natural, if you have someone to talk to, it does take two. If you&#8217;re going to dive a full face mask, might as well take full advantage of the capabilities. You&#8217;ll use more air at first. The more comfortable, the less you&#8217;ll use. I typically use less than most on the boat with standard gear. Usually the last out of the water.

I&#8217;d go along with JimLap. Tell your buddy to get a bunch of dives under his belt and then try a good full face mask and get the training. Do consider it an advanced piece of equipment.

 

[mntdiver]

Another thing to take into consideration is the stress that the hose puts on the regulator, somewhat prying it out of your mouth requiring a stronger bite. You might also consider a swivel to reduce this, combine it with a good mouthpiece like the Seacure or a Rite Bite and I think you'll find it much more comfortable.

 

[jim T.]

What are the specific shortcomings of the Neptune Space masks? I keep hearing that they have them, but haven't been able to locate a thread/post that lists them. I tried one in a free one night quickie workshop/seminar and it seemed pretty comfortable and easy to use after some beginner's stress I'll try a NAGA when the opportunity presents itself. On the Ocean Reef masks, the straps are released by two quick pull tabs near the chin. Are NAGAs similar?

Thanks.

 

[medictom]

I always prefer an AGa or exo

 

[muddiver]

Everyone forgot about the M48 by Kirby Morgan. It removes the need to cary a spare mask and the need to remove the mask to use your back up air source. You just pop the regulator pod off and your mouth is clear to stick an octo into. It is also better on the surface while you wait because you can leave the regulator pod off while you are bobbing around.

 

[RoyN]

The scubapro FFM was pretty good, tried it myself and probably get one with prescription lense.