Force Fins "The ultimate fins" or are they?

[meesier42]

I have studied and learned from GUE and WKPP, and it sounds like you need to take a refresher on what the "requirements" are, as ForceFins are actually 100% compliant, and Yes, I have verified that through the president of the GUE organization. ...and yes, I have pushed more gear than you can ever imagine using my ForceFins, and did so more effortlessly than the guys next to me wearing their jets, enough so that many of them have bought ForceFins.

But that is not the point, when some of the most respected divers known to our little microcossism use ForceFin, there is a reason for it.

To drop names.
Jean-Micheal Cousteau
Dr. Phil Nuytten
John Chatterton
Dr. Sylvia Earle
and the list goes on and on.

ForceFins, as the "ultimate fins", as I said many post ago, I don't think there is such a thing. They are very good fins, certainly some of the best for recreational scuba diving. So for me, they are the ultimate fins, but for some, they are not.

 

[Baracuda Smile]

You obviously have never heard of the WKPP (Woodville Karst Plain Project; link) or of KUR (Karst Underwater Research; link). The WKPP is one of the most respected (and snottyest) groups of divers in the world and they use scubapro jetfins exclusively; they also routinely cary more gear than you would think posible. Why do they use jetfins? Because they have found that they work the best at moving copious amounts of gear; in other words, they are powerfull and more importantly they are very cheap. That means the dollar per pound of thust per kick is very good, unlike the force fins. Jet fins also last forever unless you leave them in the trunk of the car during the summer which streatches your dollar even further.

KUR on the other hand lets their memebers use pretty much whatever fins they want, but still no force fins for much the same reasons.

Why do the people doing the most extreem diving in the world NOT use what is, apparently, the best fin ever made; aka force fin? Beacause it is NOT the best fin ever made. Sure, it may be the most powerfull/efficient flutterkicking fin in this universe, but it lacks the ability to preform all types of kicks, and the cost/benefit ratio is not in its favor.

if you look closely you will see a pair of cressi frog fins, also keep an eye out for the guy with the blue diverite fins diving sidemount. I too used to use cressi frogs and I could outpace most people, while some could outpace me. Just for kicks, sometimes when following other divers I will keep the same kickrate as them and see who goes faster. Sometimes I'm faster and sometimes they are. The funny thing is that some people who wear jetfins are faster than me and some are slower.

The guy with the blue DiveRite fins is Joel Clark. That guy can MOVE with modified flutter kick; faster than most people can frog kick.

What this says to me is that how fast/efficient your swimming is has a lot more to do with TECHNIQUE and STREAMLINING than what fin you are using.

Amen Brother that was what I was trying to say. To add to this discusion I believe it is how you have your kit set up. Let me explain. I have seen some divers with dive lights, dive slates, whistles, fin straps, reels, spools, lift bags, signaling mirrors all hanging off their BCD. This creates a lot of aquadynamic drag. Meanwhile I have only two hoses on my my octo as I have intigrated air, and air2. I have all my gear stowed in my pockets and my BCD tight to my body. When I want to really move out I place both my hands behind my back and under the tank, then I ball up my fists to cause the tank to depress slightly near my head. I put my chin on my chest, and start off with a strong flutter kick to pick up momentum then once I get going I maintain speed by just using my ankles to barely move the fins up and down. I also use this technique when I dive with a camera as I place the camera under the tank near my buttocks, or in the slip stream of the tank. This helps keep my sac rate real low. I am sure I could be more efficient if I went with foot fins instead of heal strap fins, but that is not an option as most my dives are shore dives and I don't want an urchin spine in my foot.

 

[digital_steve]

currently i have oms slipstreams
if i could try a pair of excellerating force fins i would, but there's no way i'd drop $400US on an experiment.
Obviously they were designed for frog kicking, but are they good for back kicking and helicopter turns etc etc.

 

[Bob Evans]

Digital Steve,

I made my fins to give me the best performance for my underwater photography. I started freelancing in 1968 by selling my photos to a dive magazine run by John Gaffney. Being my hands were tied up with camera gear I spent over 16 years trying to come up with a better design fin. Thirty years later I am now selling over 30 different models for water sports. All of them are tested by me with a camera in hand.

My son, Alex just returned from Tasmania. Alex said Tasmania was beautiful. He is a deep ocean chemist finishing up his phd at CalTech this year. You can check out what they were doing off your shores at the cruise blog. I wish I could have sent a pair down with him for you so you could give them a test run.

Captain Billy Dean's gave his endorsement to this fin along with Kevin Gurr and others.

 

[uncleavi]

I use Force Fins because they are comfortable, give me the propulsion I need and are made in the USA.

 

[Susanne]

Force Fins will always be the choice for a small minority and will always be a small production item. This latter point has to do with the constantly changing styles and low volume which don't mitigate in favor of setting up a large production line.

You do not know how small or large Force Fin production is. We could have moved, we still could move production to China at anytime. We choose to remain in support of the 4 facilities that have crews dedicated to our production here in the US.

Styles do not change. We add models to respond to clients' specific needs and desires. Out of the many models of Force Fins we make, there must be one that serves your purpose perfectly.

I think the real reason you do not like Force Fins is that we represent freedom. Freedom of movement in the water. Freedom to wiggle your toes. Freedom from cramps. Freedom to manufacture where we choose to manufacture and to make designs the way we and our clients choose to have them look and made. And, freedom from control of dive industry pressure that requires that you pay more than your share of magazine advertising dollars for coverage. Is that the way you think we should be getting the word out to the public about our products, instead of by word of mouth? 80% of our sales come by referral from happy customers.

Here's to freedom!

 

[pescador775]

Freedom is great, so they say. Wallstreet loved it but now that the party is over the rats are stuffing cash in their briefcases and heading to countries with no extradition. Well, Bernie Madoff was a little slow off the mark but his wife skimmed 32 millions before she ran. I wonder if Greenspan finally realizes that Ayne Rand was nuts? Oh, what were you saying, some silly stuff about toes? Wiggle your toes and pick your nose fraulein. Machts mir nicht.

 

[Scott]

I have two pairs of Force Fins. The first pair I bought in 83? at DEMA for the wife. I always tell people it has the serial number of 1. I know it doesn't but their that old. Bought the second pair in red a couple years later because it was a new 'cool' color. Both pair are still going strong. Our three boys have grown up using them. I also loan them out to friends to use while fishing from their float tubes. An Instructor and DM at our LDS uses them exclusivley.
I wear brand X because the FF pocket doesn't fit my foot the best.

 

[uncleavi]

Must be nice when you don't have to use your name on here.
What a genius and an expert on Objectivism as well.

 

[Susanne]

I agree with Avi.

Pescador,

It is obvious you have a.... is it.... bone to pick, but we can't offer a possible solution to your anger, unless you disclose who you are.