Florida Cave Fest, November 5-9, 2023

[The Chairman]

demanding answers 'now' just for the entertainment.

Well, there ya go. You believe the lie too. Nice hijack though. Why not start another thread about it rather than polluting this one?

 

[tmassey]

It’s not being clique. It’s having had bad experiences with instabuddies.

Oh, I didn’t say that you don’t have a reason for it…

For those that have access to a large pool of willing buddies, I can very much understand a reluctance to meet up with a random people and go diving into an unforgiving environment. For those of us that don’t have that resource, it is very much is a chicken or the egg problem. How do we get entrée into that pool?

For you instructors who work hard to help your students to grow that community, I applaud you. That is another one of those things that differentiate instructors. It’s also another one of those things that a student may not realize they need until after they’ve taken their training. And redoing your cave classes to get introduced to other students is kind of an expensive and difficult way to do it.

At this point, I actually do have access to, if not a large pool of buddies, a large enough one. I don’t actually have to post to find enough experienced buddies to be able to fill up my trip. But I still like to do it, because I like to have the opportunity to keep growing my pool. Sometimes experienced people will reach out, which is great for me because that grows my network. Sometimes new people reach out, which is great because it helps to begin to grow their network.

I do appreciate the risk involved. I won’t go so far as calling them whores… But you can imagine that we keep those initial dives simple and straightforward. Let’s just start with coffee and see how it goes, shall we?

And, I also want to apologize for being insulting. I stand by what I said: I have personally found that most people who spend a great deal of time in or actually live in Cave country tend to be reluctant to bring in new, inexperienced divers into their community. However, I should have phrased it a little more neutrally. In addition, it’s not universal: there are those that will welcome new divers, as shown by this thread. And again, for you instructors that go out of your way over time to help your students to get integrated into that community, I applaud you. Besides giving your students the tools they need to keep themselves alive, it may be the most valuable resource they get.

 

[rddvet]

Oh, I didn’t say that you don’t have a reason for it…

For those that have access to a large pool of willing buddies, I can very much understand a reluctance to meet up with a random people and go diving into an unforgiving environment. For those of us that don’t have that resource, it is very much is a chicken or the egg problem. How do we get entrée into that pool?

For you instructors who work hard to help your students to grow that community, I applaud you. That is another one of those things that differentiate instructors. It’s also another one of those things that a student may not realize they need until after they’ve taken their training. And redoing your cave classes to get introduced to other students is kind of an expensive and difficult way to do it.

At this point, I actually do have access to, if not a large pool of buddies, a large enough one. I don’t actually have to post to find enough experienced buddies to be able to fill up my trip. But I still like to do it, because I like to have the opportunity to keep growing my pool. Sometimes experienced people will reach out, which is great for me because that grows my network. Sometimes new people reach out, which is great because it helps to begin to grow their network.

I do appreciate the risk involved. I won’t go so far as calling them whores… But you can imagine that we keep those initial dives simple and straightforward. Let’s just start with coffee and see how it goes, shall we?

And, I also want to apologize for being insulting. I stand by what I said: I have personally found that most people who spend a great deal of time in or actually live in Cave country tend to be reluctant to bring in new, inexperienced divers into their community. However, I should have phrased it a little more neutrally. In addition, it’s not universal: there are those that will welcome new divers, as shown by this thread. And again, for you instructors that go out of your way over time to help your students to get integrated into that community, I applaud you. Besides giving your students the tools they need to keep themselves alive, it may be the most valuable resource they get.

BTW I'll buddy with you if you end up needing a buddy on a thursday or a sunday that I'm free. I actually stopped instabuddying with people after I had one bad experience and my wife had several, including with people who were recommended as dive buddies from an instructor we hold in high regard. One guy silted out a very large passage in ginnie due to poor skills. But I've been saying I need to start diving with more people again other than my wife. I just generally keep the first couple dives with new buddies simple and usually carry a buddy bottle.
My pool of buddies has actually grown very small due to a friend passing unrelated to diving, multiple friends giving up cave diving (which is the most common culprit for most people who's friend pool dwindles), and lack of coordinating schedules.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

And redoing your cave classes to get introduced to other students is kind of an expensive and difficult way to do it

I and many/most all of my colleagues here in cave country allow and even encourage former students to join in on subsequent cave classes with no fee.

Everyone wins; I win because I have another "Buddy" for the new student to participate in skills/drills, the new student wins because s/he has someone to compare themselves to, and practice with and of course the former student gets to hone his skills under the watchful eyes of a cave instructor.

 

[rddvet]

And, I also want to apologize for being insulting. I stand by what I said: I have personally found that most people who spend a great deal of time in or actually live in Cave country tend to be reluctant to bring in new, inexperienced divers into their community.

I don't find it insulting because its true. 12-13 years ago when I started cave diving it was a little different and there was a more open community. I will say the opposite of what others have said, but I actually find the GUE community in cave country more open than the general cave diving population. And to be more specific, not just GUE divers. I have found the divers who I've met at EE (both gue and non-gue) to be more open and friendly than the general population. Of course that's just my own experience. As berndo has expressed, it definitely isn't like that in Europe.

 

[rddvet]

I and many/most all of my colleagues here in cave country allow and even encourage former students to join in on subsequent cave classes with no fee.

Everyone wins; I win because I have another "Buddy" for the new student to participate in skills/drills, the new student wins because s/he has someone to compare themselves to, and practice with and of course the former student gets to hone his skills under the watchful eyes of a cave instructor.

This too. More instructors should do this. It burns my ass when I see instructors (usually those I deem the Kave Kardashians) posting about all the classes they run with only one student. I just want to scream "why don't you cultivate your students to come back and play buddy in future classes." As Jim said, everybody wins.

 

[The Chairman]

I have had absolutely no problems with GUE divers/instructors. In fact, I find that they are far less prone to idle gossip about other divers and instructors. It's kinda nice! I'm proud to be friends to a few. To be frank, there are far more rumors and baseless accusations made springside than ever get posted on the internet.

I'm still in the process of getting back in the water but hope to be needing a buddy soon.

 

[Manatee Diver]

I just generally keep the first couple dives with new buddies simple and usually carry a buddy bottle.

That is what I do, something simple with limited silt like mainline Ginnie, or Hill 400. Something where it would be very hard for them to kill me.

I and many/most all of my colleagues here in cave country allow and even encourage former students to join in on subsequent cave classes with no fee.

Because of my schedule it is hard to work that in, but I've kind of toyed of maybe doing a day here or there as the class buddy. Maybe not for both dives, but just go back and refresh some of the basics so I don't develop bad habits due to being mostly solo.

It's starting to get busy and people have signed up for guiding diving. I'm guiding at Alachua tomorrow and Hart on Sunday and Wednesday.

I've been wanting to get into Alachua and Hart one of these days.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I've kind of toyed of maybe doing a day here or there as the class buddy.

I'd enjoy having you in one of my classes.

 

[The Chairman]

I'd enjoy having you in one of my classes.

We've made a match! Two of my favorite cavers.