Question First wide angle strobes - one great strobe or 2 good strobes?

[KyleFS]

To not "bury the lead", I'm looking for recommendations on my first strobe(s) used primarily for wider-angle shots. Do I blow the whole budget on 1 "great" strobe hoping to add a second later or 2 "good" strobes out of the gate, hoping to upgrade later?

Context:
I'm new to the world of underwater photography. I have worked in pro video on land and some hobby photography. I got a GoPro as an easier (and cheaper) entry to the task loading of adding a camera to a dive before taking my "nicer" cameras underwater. I have enjoyed it, but find myself just capturing crappy stills from my videos. So, I figured I should just commit to photography underwater. And if I know anything, it's that lighting makes all the difference, so focusing here.

I dive off the NC coast so mostly shipwrecks, sharks, and photos of fellow divers. I'm looking for recommendations on somewhat reasonably priced single or pair of strobes to go with my A6000 or a6300 with the 16-50mm in a Salted Line A6xxx housing.

Strobe budget is <$1,000. Based on research, wide angle shooting is going to need some power and eventually (or right away), 2 strobes, so I'm torn between 1 more expensive powerful strobe to start or 2 less expensive/powerful out of the gate. I started exploring this thread on "Big Bang Strobes", but fear the suggestions/specificity might be more expensive than I can afford for my first strobe(s), but can be convinced to invest once.

Options I've seen/considered:

• 1x Sea & Sea YS-D3 (seems to be a nice all-around, but top-end of the budget)
• 2x Inon S220 (More budget wide-angle, but probably underpowered?)
• Find used Inon Z330s or wait for whatever the replacement will be
• Save my pennies for a Retra or other?
• Scubalamp D-Pro (or is this too "specialized"?)

What would you recommend? Or am I approaching this wrong? I know the challenge with wide and strobes is hot spots and getting proper lighting and recognize there's a lot I don't know, so also looking for some versatility.

 

[JohnnyQuest]

I recommend these two books (in this order):

See below (Edge and Mustard).


UW photography is completely different than above water photography. If you want great shots, you’re going to have to study and practice. You’re not going to get great shots (or even ok shots) if you hope to shoot in anything other than manual (both the camera and the strobes) and if you don’t understand lighting.

I shot above water for many years. Then I read and studied and took notes. Then I shot thousands of photos in a pool.

You’ll certainly want two strobes. I recommend looking for a set of used ones. Wetpixel classifieds is a good place to look.

But this is important:
You need to first decide how you plan on triggering your strobes (fiber optic or cable). I strongly recommend fiber optic. And different housing manufacturers only accommodate certain triggers. And triggers are only compatible with certain strobes. And different cameras are only compatible with certain strobes and certain triggers!

You need to decide on which system you will use. Only then, can you decide on which strobes (and trigger) you can use.

UW photography is not for the faint of heart! Do your homework and learn, before you spend a penny.

 

[tursiops]

Two strobes for wide-angle (to get the coverage), and to have one remaining as a backup if (when) one fails.
Used strobes are good option; don't ignore Ikelite.

 

[KyleFS]

@JohnnyQuest Thanks for the insights and book recommendations! I definitely have no misconception that this will be a long, involved, MANUAL, frustrating, and awesome endeavor.

I removed a rambling explanation of what I think triggering will look like. Based on my current cameras and housing I'll initially be relying on the onboard flash to trigger via fiber optic cable. The Seafrogs salted line housing has fiber optic ports built in.

After some research it seems if I wanted to down the road I could get an UW Technics TTL converter instead of using the onboard flash. I guess my current understanding is that I'll be manually setting the flash? This is the biggest gap in understanding I'm still working on learning.

And 100% agree. I will likely research this, ask others I dive with, and perseverate over a setup and details for a year before making a purchase. Appreciate the insight and education!

 

[tursiops]

I guess my current understanding is that I'll be manually setting the flash?

This is not a big deal. I think much of the angst about needing TTL or some kind of auto-flash setting comes from the days of film, when you had no idea if the picture you just took was exposed correctly or not. Now you just look at the result and adjust if needed. A bit of over-exposure or even more underexposure is usually correctable in post-processing.
Also, in many cases your exposure is not going to change much. You'll quickly find your favorite settings for the nudibranch, the fish, and the wreck.
The hardest part is finding a shutter speed that allows the water background (if there is one) to be the color of blue you want...the exposure for your subject is controlled by f-stop, flash power, distance-to-subject.

 

[PatW]

OK with NC diving, I think wide angle is a good choice. A 16-50 will work well for medium fish up to sharks, wrecks and divers.

In UW photography, the rule of thumb is anything over 5’ away is long range. The closer the better.

I think you are better off with two strobes. It is a more versatile set up. Unless they are underpowered, they will work on close ups and most subjects as long as you are pretty close. The thing to remember, that even a hugely powerful strobe will not illuminate that much farther than a weaker one.

And with strobes, strobe positioning is a big deal. There are a number of you tube videos on the subject. And they can give really good tips, I found out that for subjects on the sand (Think stingrays) you want strobes up high and sort of in front and pointed down. And the results were far better.

You pick up a few tips and you find that a situation that never seemed to work will suddenly produce far better results.

Of course, often you go around with a default strobe positioning because shots have a pretty limited time frame on many subjects. So you go with that.

Going one strobe is certainly better than none, but two gives far better flexibility. Also, sometimes strobes fail on a trip. I take three strobes on trips and back up batteries.

 

[KyleFS]

This is not a big deal. I think much of the angst about needing TTL or some kind of auto-flash setting comes from the days of film, when you had no idea if the picture you just took was exposed correctly or not. Now you just look at teh result and adjust if needed. A bit of over-exposure or even more underexposure is usually correctable in post-processing.

This makes sense and is reassuring. I also have read that TTL underwater can be a mixed bag as well. I'll be shooting RAW, so I'll have SOME flexibility. I tend to err on the side of underexposure anyway.

You'll quickly find your favorite settings for the nudibranch, the fish, and the wreck.

Copy. I've already seen some others' "starting point" settings using a similar rig to my planned setup. The fun will be remembering those between surface intervals!

The thing to remember, that even a hugely powerful strobe will not illuminate that much farther than a weaker one.

That makes sense and eases my analysis paralysis a little bit. I was concerned that if I didn't have the most power it would be useless, but it makes sense that it's maybe more about coverage and spread than outright power (to an extent).

I have seen a few of those strobe positioning videos! Will continue to research.

Going one strobe is certainly better than none, but two gives far better flexibility. Also, sometimes strobes fail on a trip. I take three strobes on trips and back up batteries.

Would you prioritize getting 2 right away or go nicer and live with 1 for a while until budget allows for a second?

 

[PatW]

This makes sense and is reassuring. I also have read that TTL underwater can be a mixed bag as well. I'll be shooting RAW, so I'll have SOME flexibility. I tend to err on the side of underexposure anyway.

Copy. I've already seen some others' "starting point" settings using a similar rig to my planned setup. The fun will be remembering those between surface intervals!



That makes sense and eases my analysis paralysis a little bit. I was concerned that if I didn't have the most power it would be useless, but it makes sense that it's maybe more about coverage and spread than outright power (to an extent).

I have seen a few of those strobe positioning videos! Will continue to research.


Would you prioritize getting 2 right away or go nicer and live with 1 for a while until budget allows for a second?

TTL options were pretty limited when I started underwater photography. I have always shot RAW and full manual. I modify strobe output but not that often. Histograms are wonderful things. I have been happy with my approach and have not seen the need to switch.

On land, I usually shoot aperture priority and it is surprising how often I have to modify the exposure compensation. I mean that camera does pretty well with exposure but it is not that great. So I don’t think TTL would be a big savings of time and bother underwater.

As mentioned above buying one strobe and waiting is a good option. One strobe beats no strobes to heck and back. Also, you could get a used strobe. I got a used strobe on EBay (a crap shoot) and it was the previous model. I got years of good service out of it. I just used it as a secondary strobe when shooting. I was surprised at how well it did.

 

[MrChen]

I recently snagged a pair of used Inon Z330's in your budget range. Keep your eyes on the classifieds and you can get two strobes within your budget.

If your current budget is $1000, how soon would you be able to buy a second if you bought a single one now? If the time period is short, consider buying from a vendor which supports a payment system like shop.com. You can get 2 strobes and pay installments interest free.

Which camera do you have?

 

[KyleFS]

I recently snagged a pair of used Inon Z330's in your budget range. Keep your eyes on the classifieds and you can get two strobes within your budget.

If your current budget is $1000, how soon would you be able to buy a second if you bought a single one now? If the time period is short, consider buying from a vendor which supports a payment system like shop.com. You can get 2 strobes and pay installments interest free.

Which camera do you have?

Thanks! I'll keep my eye out. The 330s seemed like a good option based on my research.

I have both a Sony a6000 and a6300. Was planning to dive with the 6000 since I care less about it if it gets destroyed. If I become annoyed with the autofocus, then I'll do the 6300 since the performance really is much better.