First Dive Experience in 2013

[TK Stone]

Hi all,

In what is probably a natural progression for most divers, myself and my partner have been snorkeling for a few years, and have talked often about getting our PADI certification. This was set in stone last May after snorkeling off Menjangen Island, Indonesia, and being completely blown away by the aquatic & coral life. Not to mention that one of our boat's crew did an assisted dive, and we envied them as the sunk deeper into the depth, while we remained floating on the surface.

Anyway, long story short, and we are hoping to do the 3 day PADI Open Water course in September 2013. Initially considering Samoa, but the past few days have been considering the Gili Islands in Indonesia. So, with that, brings some questions, in no particular order of importance.

1. Are most PADI certified schools overseas to be considered reliable, and adhering to saftey and clear training processes... are there any recommendations for Gili (Air or Meno, I think we'll stay away from the party island).

2. Do you wear wetsuits in such tropical climates, or are boardies sufficient? Maybe an obvious question to sesoned divers, but bear in mind that I have no practical idea how cold it gets when youre 60 feet from the surface.

3. We will proably buy masks beforehand, because the one I presently have (for snorkeling) is very uncomfortable. For what will probably only be a twice yearly thing, I dont want to go all out with buying much else, but........

4. Its my partners birthday soon, and I want to buy her a wrist mounted dive computer, quite simply because she likes gadgets and every year that pases I run out of ideas ! The dive computers vary greatly in price, features and probably quality. Are there any reputable models widely accepted as valid in the cheaper end of the spectrum ... Im thinking around $350. Are thy like most other stuff, where it is a wiser option to buy from the US to save a few bucks? In saying all this, I dont want to spend $350 or so if the models in the budget range are unreliable, and would instead spend the money on other dive gear for her, and simply use the dive schools computer at the time.

Is there anything else I need to know? I am of the mind thats its all fairly straightforward learning to dive with a PADI school, and that I'll pck up bits & peices between now and September.

Would love to hear from people that have dived Gilli Islands and Samoa, and what they thought of them by comparison. Nothing's locked in, destination wise, so im also open to other suggestions, on the criteria that the destination is relaxed, quiet, and offers non-resort accommodation options, and of course with warm, crystal clear reef waters. Anywhere in Indonesia would be cool for us, or the Phillipines, as would anywhere in the polynesian pacific (Tonga sites, anyone?)

 

[TMHeimer]

I'll only comment on wetsuits. For me, anywhere "tropical" means a body suit only. Tropical to me is 75F or above. Colder than that, I wear a shortie down to maybe 65F. I always wear something as protection against scrapes, etc. Everyone is different regarding cold tolerance. You should also ask around about the sites you will dive--ei., is there usually a thermocline?-- such as it may be 75 at the surface and 55 at 80'.

 

[lindenbruce]

#1 - Well, most shops you can do the pool and classroom work local and do the open water checkouts at your vacation spot. You just need to arrange all of this ahead of time.

#2 - Water temps even in the tropics very depending on the time of the year, the location, and as you already may know based on your question with depth. I usually dive a 3mm/2mm in Cozumel in the winter months and I'm toasty. But I was in Key Largo last July and dove a 1mm suit all the way down to the top deck of the Spiegle Grove twice and never got cold.

#3 - You need a mask that will be comfy. If it's not it can add to your stress level during a dive and that could be a problem. Plus, if it's not comfy you are going to be messing with it during your dives and it will leak more than it needs too. Plus you won't be enjoying your dives either and may miss some good views. But a good comfy mask that fits well.

#4 - There are a few wrist top computers in your general price range. Just do some searching on the internet and you will find something you like. Possibly. You may need to go to the 450 price level though.

B

 

[261311]

Since everyone is different you can try something that sounds sort of silly. Find out what temperature you're diving in and fill your bath tub to that and sit in it for 5 minutes, does that feel uncomfortable in the slightest? The surface temperatures are going to be cooler (usually speaking) as well so you can always plan ahead for that if you do find it cool. Water conducts heat away from your body extremely quickly and efficiently and all a wetsuit really does it help keep that body heat in. The thicker it is, the more heat is kept in longer. Keep in mind that the thicker it is, the less you can move too. Overall however, I wouldn't recommend a 5mm full body for tropical waters, that's overkill. Personally I wear wetsuits for not only warmth but protection.

In response to 3 and 4, does your partner dive a lot/ is certified? $350 is a lot to spend on a piece of gear, especially if you two are only vacation divers. Perhaps a familiarity with a simple Submersible Pressure Gauge & Compass would be better as those are easily rented with the rest of the gear. As for your face mask, make sure you purchase one with tempered glass and that's comfortable. Trying it on works best to test both fit, comfort (not all masks are made the same) and function (ie. nose pocket size for equalizing). At least this way it can be integrated into your snorkeling gear as well.

As far as additional information goes, aside from personal gear such as a mask, wetsuit and fins I may not be too hasty to buy any gear unless you find you have a true love for it both at home and abroad because it's never a cheap endeavor to become a diver so renting gear if you're not going to use it frequently will be the way to go. If you're a frequent diver with your own set of tanks and gear between refills, inspections and repairs you could be looking at more money yearly for upkeep over just the cost of your 2 trips that you are using your gear for. I would also put a good amount of focus on finding a good reputable dive shop to have your lessons/ open water dives done through because scuba can be a negative experience like anything else new if you don't learn it right, quite harmful actually (diving is incredibly safe and fun when you're trained to do it right, that's why staying within your training and comfort levels is important).

 

[TK Stone]

Thanks for the responses, and also Bruce for the PM suggestion, much appreciated.

I'm taking a lot of old threads on board, and a question has arisen regarding the duration of the OW course. Last year a guy was commenting on some alleged unprofessionalism, personal exhaustion etc.

Is three days not ideal, if if so, does that have to do more with taking so much info in, or the physical tiredness? Maybe I should try and book a course with a day break in between. There will be no rush, this holiday we plan to do NOTHING but dive, snorkel & eat! I'm also considering whether I should grab the course textbooks in advance to get a head start on the theory.

The dive/snorkel safari we were on last year, Im sure the shop gave the only diver in the crew a loaner wetsuit. That seems a bit gross to me, but maybe we should just plan on that, being that we are only going to be occasional divers. The shop on site would also have a better idea of the local requirements than a shop in my home town (Im in Sydney, Australia). In reality, do we really need any gear of our own?

Personally I want my own mask. The one I have is uncomfortable, strains the bridge on the nose so much that when I was kicked in the face by my buddy last year in Pedang Bay, Im pretty sure it caused a slight frature, because I couldnt wear sunglasses for days without discomfort.

---------- Post added March 12th, 2013 at 01:25 AM ----------

Hi 261311, saw your response after I posted. I think you have a good point about the gear, maybe I should reevaluate the computer.

Not sure about the bath idea, as I dont have a 60ft deep tub ! The waters in that part of Indonesia are beautiful, generally always over 80 degrees F but I would have assumed that the deeper you go, the colder it gets.

 

[TSandM]

I'm assuming you're in Sydney, Australia? Why not get certified there? Talk to the folks at Dive Center Bondi; I'm quite sure they would give you an open water class of good quality and with solid training. If you learn locally, you're likely to dive locally, and if you do, you dive more and get better at it -- and enjoy it more. And there are amazing and fabulous creatures in the water there -- my husband would give his eyeteeth to see Leafy Sea Dragons in person!

 

[TK Stone]

For a few reasons, I don't have any desire to learn here. Firstly, because the impetus behind going away is specifically to learn to dive. No dive course means we wouldnt be going to the destination (whichever we choose, the Gili's or Samoa)

Sencondly, I don't know if you are familiar with sites in Sydney, but my limited experience as a snorkeller hasn't really left any lasting impressions. Gordon's Bay (near Bondi) is always dirty and rubbish washed up, the Clovelly pool is a bit artificial and full of kids for my taste, and the harbour is also dirty and with poor visibility. Shelly Beach near Manly is OK sometimes, but visibility is often not so good either.

For all I know, being a diver probably opens up the local scene beyond the limited exposure that a snorkeler can access, but we really want this whole thing to be the central part of our vacation.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

First of all I would not let anyone I cared about get certified in a three day course. Both because of the fatigue factor and the ability to absorb the necessary information. I don't know what you think scuba is or what impression you've gotten of it but I can guess. Fun, sun, people in swim suits, and so safe anyone can do it. Truth is though that this is an extreme sport that has the very real potential to hurt or kill you very quickly in some pretty nasty ways. Espcially if you don't have the necessary training and information to assess the dives, plan them for yourself, and realize that you and you alone are responsible for your own safety. I'd sugggest reading these two threads before electing to go and do one of these shortcut filled courses.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ering-diving/283566-who-responsible-what.html
and this one
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ng/287780-how-find-excellent-scuba-class.html

Then take a look at this thread:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/near-misses-lessons-learned/449047-dm-blew-me-off.html

and perhaps this one:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/447656-fatality-off-miami-beach-florida.html

And then decide if a three day course is indeed enough. Again I would not let anyone I cared the least bit about do it.

So to answer some of these questions:
"1. Are most PADI certified schools overseas to be considered reliable, and adhering to saftey and clear training processes... are there any recommendations for Gili (Air or Meno, I think we'll stay away from the party island)."

NO. Not by a long shot. PADI certifed on the door means nothing as far as quality or comprehensiveness of training. Even so called 5 star centers are no guarantee. Ask what makes a 5 star as opposed to a 3 or 4 star. Hint - there are no 3 or 4 star operations. It's about how much money is made.

"2. Do you wear wetsuits in such tropical climates, or are boardies sufficient? Maybe an obvious question to sesoned divers, but bear in mind that I have no practical idea how cold it gets when youre 60 feet from the surface."

YES! Most experienced divers wear some type of suit. It's not just about cold. There are things in the water that can sting, scrape, cut, etc. Especially if you've taken one of the short courses where they don't teach proper buoyancy and you end up bumping into things.

"3. We will proably buy masks beforehand, because the one I presently have (for snorkeling) is very uncomfortable. For what will probably only be a twice yearly thing, I dont want to go all out with buying much else, but........"

Relatively speaking masks are cheap. Get one that fits and is comfortable. Not doing so will make you miserable throughout the dive.

"4. Its my partners birthday soon, and I want to buy her a wrist mounted dive computer, quite simply because she likes gadgets and every year that pases I run out of ideas ! The dive computers vary greatly in price, features and probably quality. Are there any reputable models widely accepted as valid in the cheaper end of the spectrum ... Im thinking around $350. Are thy like most other stuff, where it is a wiser option to buy from the US to save a few bucks? In saying all this, I dont want to spend $350 or so if the models in the budget range are unreliable, and would instead spend the money on other dive gear for her, and simply use the dive schools computer at the time."


Don't waste your money until you find out if she actually likes it. And a computer is not necessary for a new diver. Some will say it is. But in truth it's not and you are better off working on basic skills, including proper dive planning, with analog gauges and tables IMO.



PM me your email. I'll send you something that I hope will get you to really look at getting proper training and not do one of these quickie courses. Free.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I always appreciate Jim Lapenta's perspective, but frankly for recreational diving, a three or four day destination course can be appropriate for most people. Quality of instruction and competence of the instructor is key, as is class size and quality of equipment available. As to the op's specific questions, here are my responses to add to the broad spectrum of input being given.

1. Yes. PADI is an international organization who is active in quality control. If they have licensed a dive center, it should be a competent place to get certified.

2. Not everyone is as hardy as TMHeimer. I use a 3 mil full body suit if I am diving multiple days and mutilple dives each day. Others are comfortable in a skin or 1 mil. A 3 mil shorty wetsuit is perhaps the most
common exposure gear used in the conditions you describe.

3. Gear acquisition is a personal choice. A quality mask that is fitted to your face is a must. Most PADI dive centers will have decent rental gear.

4. IF you are in fact set on buying your partner a wrist mount computer, there are models for as cheap as 200 dollars, which I cannot recommend. Oceanic has a VEO 3.0 for $399, and a VEO 2.0 for 339. The 3.0 is ok. Sunto and Cressi each offer a wrist mount for $300, but I am not familiar with either of those. You should read about each and compare features and warranties. Not everyone needs the 1200 dollar models.
DivemasterDennis

 

[261311]

I think the quick notes of both Jim and DivemasterD that I personally take away is can the 3-4 day shortened course be done? I'd say "sure" but it's not for everyone. Jim has a good point about people being given marathons through really important things which can cause people to become bored and not pay complete attention; especially in a PADI course where I find, the movies put you to sleep while conveying confusing points that conflict with new material (book). Personally my preference was originally a 2 day, 1 night course for PADI but after spreading it out over weeks when my schedule didn't end up working with my dive buddy, I personally am thankful. I feel I absorbed more and the steady pacing of having the opportunity to reassemble my own gear once a week really helped me retain the process. Again, I see this as preference.

I don't feel there's anything negative about learning to dive at home, no matter where you are. Given you're looking for PADI instruction (especially in Australia) it might be easier to do the in-class items before your vacation. If the purpose of the vacation is to learn to dive and have fun, do your checkouts there, no problem at all. The in-class part just helps you do what can be sometimes boring in your off time when it's not on your dollar anyways. I think the stress would be reduced as well by knowing that you don't have to "rush through" the class or reading (not something I recommend given your life is on the line) because you only have a week to do it all. Another thing to consider is checkout and course related diving isn't always done in the most exciting areas that may encounter a ton of sea life or interesting items for a basic open water. They're merely confined water dives at first (stagnant, clear and relatively shallow [10ft] water) The instructors will be focusing on you paying attention and being there for your safety more than your fun and enjoyment. Vacations are supposed to be fun, not productive. If you mentioned you fell in love with reefs while snorkeling imagine being able to hire a divemaster to help you explore the reef even deeper, or go it alone all throughout your time there.

As per my silly bath tub comment, that was just to benchmark how comfortable you feel (essentially) at the surface in water and what type of exposure protection you might desire. Almost fortunately, bath tubs don't hold heat well anyways so it will become progressively cooler. Each atmosphere/ thermocline you go down the temperature can drop 3-10c depending on where and how deep you are so an "at minimum" protection suit is always helpful.