Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[Lorenzoid]

There is no hatch to lock. It is an open stairway.

My speculation about the Coast Guard dispatcher referring to a "locked" door is that he mis-heard "blocked." Perhaps the crew member said the exit was "blocked" (by fire).

 

[Louisville Diver]

THIS. Imagine this. 34 people sleeping in the bunk. Empty galley with charging devices. Crew sleeping on the bridge. Opened windows everywhere - there was a heatwave and the sea was calm as seen from videos. One battery catching fire, the next, the next and all supported by light breeze through opened windows. Flammable surfaces all around. Huge fire before you know it and crew jumping from the bridge to the ocean. This.

So where is the anchor watch?

 

[cs4160]

I have had a lot of experience diving on the Truth Boats and similar socal LOB's like the old Great Escape. Initially, I was finding myself being defensive when people outside our little insulated west coast diving community commented on the emergency exit options. Never a problem before, its not a luxury boat, etc....

Regardless of how this terrible tragedy occurred, or if the limitation of the egress options were a factor in the casualties, I am NOT speculating, taking a hard look at the set up of these boats is warranted. After a long day of pondering over this, I find myself now being more sympathetic to the statements by those that have not dove on these sort of vessels before. Perhaps its groupthink among our socal community, but it is not at all unreasonable to question the safety of having only one unobstructed egress for 34 people (the stairway). A hatch above a 3 tier bunk that, if memory serves, requires you to bend to exit is not unobstructed. Having 3-6 less bunks so you have a proper ladder, and perhaps a slightly smaller center console in the kitchen so that the exit is more manageable, seems obvious...but that certainly didn't seem so , at least to me, during the dozens of trips I have made in the past. This is certainly not a critique of Truth Aquatics, who I have always thought of as a class act and the gold standard for that particular sort of LOB. It's more simply questioning something that was never really a concern for me. And as someone who has just brought their teenage kids into the diving world, and was looking at a Truth trip next month with one of them, I find this a bit horrifying.

As someone previously posted, I would have thought there would be a standard for that compartment to exit, like on a plane, in a certain time under certain conditions, for boats of a certain class. I can't see how you could have expected more than 1 person every 30 seconds or so to climb onto that bunk and exit under the best of circumstances. Again, this is not speculation as to the cause of this horrific tragedy, but simply perhaps a tragic accident causing attention to a previously ignored safety concern. And while there aren't that many diving boats that have this problem, there really isn't a large number of socal LOB's anymore, my GUESS is the more numerous and popular multi day fishing boats might also have the same issues.

Its probably a statement to the relative safety of other potential factors that the limitation of being able to quickly evacuate three dozen people under certain circumstances has never been a factor before on these sort of boats (at least I don't recall there being an incident). These boats were not death traps, but, as doctormike just posted, rational analysis, especially questioning previously accepted standards, "is how we learn, this is how we do better."

 

[markmud]

The description from the the crew of the grape escape says the boat was fully involved, end-to-end, by the time they had been awoken by the incident vessel crew. I don’t know how long it took to get the 200 yards to the boat to raise the alarm, but the events suggest that the crew on watch had no idea it was on fire until a very large and hot fire was already burning out of control.

Hi Kevin,

And your statement is what bothers me. Having been through a marine fire fighting school where we started and fought intense fires, and had 5 friends who suffered fires on their vessels while at sea, a roaring conflagration that engulfs the vessel faster than a coherent watchman (vertical) can react does not happen. Not unless there are large amounts of very low flashpoint liquids or items about.

I am confused and upset.

markm

 

[lexvil]

Nobody is talking about handholding while you dive, and if you want to live like you're in a grubby Amsterdam hostel when you dive, nobody is taking that away from you either. We are talking about pretty basic standards of safety involving you not drowning when your boat sinks and not burning to death when the whole thing goes up in a conflagration.

As for insurance, I doubt that they've got any more than a $5 mil umbrella. This outfit is done; they may as well start their liquidation and personal bankruptcies now.

I defer to your vast experience of live aboard diving.

 

[outofofficebrb]

View attachment 538389 New to this board, but I've followed it for years. Here’s my thing - as divers, we need to stop bargain hunting and learn to expect and demand more - the rate charged by this aggregator was way too low, and that is the problem, because the industry responds to demand for thrift by cutting corners - INCLUDING SAFETY.

When you charge a little more than $200 per day for room, food and dives, something slips.

I see a lot of quotes in news articles and on this board about how safe things were and how great dives were. Was it really that safe? We all have spent thousands of dollars on equipment and training, so by and large, dives go on without much drama. That leaves the quality of transport and accommodations.

I’ve seen the photos of the rat maze below. Leaving aside how crowded that dive deck would have been (on an Aussie liveaboard that was 25’ longer, 22 PAX on a 900 sq ft dive deck occasionally felt crowded), it looks like Truth Aquatics monetized cheap fares by cramming on more people. In fact, someone deep down in the thread talked about how there wasn’t room for everyone to eat.

That crowding killed people. I managed to find a couple of photos on the net which demonstrate that they shoved revenue bunks under what appears to be an unmarked hatch - the only escape. The area should have remained clear, with a ladder in place and emergency lighting in evidence. I don’t know how this boat passed inspection without a lot of winks and nods from the inspecting officers - it sure as hell doesn’t look like it is in compliance with the SOLAS
Convention. There are no markings on that hatch - and as an aside, as I’ve looked at other photos, where is the fire suppression equipment?

This isn’t just about a tragedy for the victims and owners, this is about culpability - and quite possibly, some crimes.

As a sporting community, we need to expect more from our providers - the boat and basic operations are supposed to be the safe point of the process. If that means that your $650 three night California liveaboard is now $1000 in order to rise up to an industry wide safety standard, then that is worth that price.

Think of this as a water taxi that you live on. You are essentially paying for it to take you to the sites and to let you sleep and eat on board. That is all. There is no divemaster or guide taking you on dives and there is no one in the water with you. The crew stay dry and usually don’t dive. You and your buddy or buddies plan your dive and dive your plan on your own. Gearing up, you were on your own. Maybe they might help you with your fins when you were coming up the boat ladder as you were tossing them up. Maybe not. The crew stay dry and on the boat. That price that you see is reflective of that. I say this because we need to think of the price relative to the fact that this is not your usual and true “liveaboard” by any means outside of the fact that you are living on it and sleeping/eating. 2 showers and 2 heads for 40 people. Everything about it is incredibly different - and I say this because I have gone out with Truth Aquatics and I’ve also done many “true liveaboards”.

I’m not saying that the living arrangements or exit hatch were okay, especially given what happened. I went on it once and decided I would never return. It was not for me from a space, logistics, and comfort standpoint. I just want to ensure we leave some perspective on pricing for others and not automatically assume just because something is inexpensive it means that it is also automatically unsafe or bad. It was appropriately priced given the above type of diving and arrangements that was offered.

Yes it is. There are so many I usually don't bother to recharge, just use what I have charged and carry extra regular AA's. Of course I'm not a photographer, just point and shoot so my non-diving friends can see why I'm crazy.

I would not bet against a no charging at night precautionary measure untill they sort out the reason for the fire.



Bob

Most liveaboards I’ve been on will not allow charging of electronics (especially lithium ion) in the rooms fearing fire hazards. There are usually dedicated charging areas and for good reason. Some allow charging of some items but def no camera equipment etc.

 

[tarponchik]

Not unless there are large amounts of very low flashpoint liquids or items about.

Is it possible that they had a back up generator running on gasoline, for example?

 

[lexvil]

Part of the vast amount of things we don’t know for sure are the reports of recovered people who appear to have injuries consistent with drowning, perhaps some did manage to escape, I really don’t know but...

 

[NickB-LA]

My speculation about the Coast Guard dispatcher referring to a "locked" door is that he mis-heard "blocked." Perhaps the crew member said the exit was "blocked" (by fire).

That's my assumption and makes a great deal of sense.

 

[shoredivr]

The last liveaboard I was on had 2 above deck exits (no accommodation below deck) and a large door like emergency exit. It was purposely designed which makes a difference.

The website for the boat says it was purpose designed and built for divers, though.