Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[Wookie]

@Wookie

Do USCG specs or approved fire sprinkler systems exist for small vessels? As far as that goes, are there restrictions on them due to the inherent stability issues?

In an ideal world, an approved and inspected system would earn insurance discounts like in residential structures.

The quick and dirty is that there are no approved fire protection plans for sprinklers, but they are not prohibited....

For some reason I cannot post the text of 46 CFR 181.120

46 CFR § 181.120 - Equipment installed but not required.

 

[Akimbo]

Not intending to be reasons not to implement something like it, but two thoughts:
- A closed charging cabinet would need substantial ventilation, especially in warmer climates.

I concur. I doubt that a commercial product will ever be certified because the market is so tiny, the liability so high, and certification cost would be eye-watering. Unless and until international certifying agencies come up with specifications, owners are free to invent and fabricate solutions on their own.

 

[Diving Dubai]

None of this needs to be rocket science nor overly draconian

A charging area just needs to be fire resistant. A metal bench would do. You can have a dedicated surge protected circuit for those dedicated outlets, with sufficient cable sizing to be resistant to "overloading" In the Dist board you can have a timer RCD protected breaker, which energises and de-energises that circuit at set periods e.g. on between 6am to 9pm

Then you ensure that the internal fixtures and fittings aren't made from some cheep wood brought at ACE, covered with some nicely flammable varnish

The Offshore Industry has been doing this for years, even nursing homes have fire proof (not resistant proof) soft furnishings and materials.

Then the same basic fire warning and protection you get in any hotel built to recent building code.

Being able to cheaply fit out a boat with substandard materials is ludicrous and it being able to pass inspection equally so.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

THANK YOU FOR THIS SUMMARY

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This summary updated 14 Sept 2019 Updates also posted on page one of this thread. Follow links & read surrounding posts to keep up to date.

It is best to read a thread before commenting. This one is so long & effects so many people we are providing & updating this summary. We believe this information is credible but can not be established as proven facts prior to completion of the investigation.

Please be kind when you post here. There are special rules. Please consider families, friends and survivors who are reading this. Accidents and Incident Threads: Victim Perspective

We can not determine the cause. Discussing possibilities may help to prevent future tragedies.

34 Casualties DNA identified. Coroner/Sheriff Brown states probable COD smoke inhalation

Conception compliant met or exceeded applicable USCG requirements on last inspection implies approved; fire alarms, fire fighting equipment and escape routes

• Grandfathered for inspection requirements. Discussion here
• USCG issue Safety Information Bulletin 10 Sept 2019
  
• Certificate of Inspection here

NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) Preliminary Report
Preliminary Report: Marine DCA19MM047
Discussion points

• states all crew sleeping
• Statement in Preliminary Report says it may contain errors

Anchor Watch

• Captain's responsibilities
  
• Regulations
  
• Anchor watch process discussion
• People from prior trips reported meeting the "watchman" at various times during night

Rough time line as reported

• night dive time? commonly done by passengers; NO night dive by Crew
  
• 2:30 crew member finished up in the galley verified heating elements were out and cold etc. Then went upstairs to bed. Not indicated if this was the designated Anchor Watch see
  
• Between 3 and 3:14, a crew member awoke hearing a bang. He attempted to go down to investigate but stairs already afire.
• 5 crew were in the wheelhouse two levels above the berth area. 1 crew member in the berth below did not survive.
• crew jumped to deck, one broke leg other undisclosed ankle injuries
• Captain first Mayday from Bridge documented 3:14
• crew tried to reach the passengers from aft passage into the salon/galley then via forward front windows
  
• forced from the boat by the fire some swam aft to the dingy & brought it alongside to rescue injured crew
  
• sought help from nearby vessel Grape Escape Another Mayday call.

Most suspected causes of fire discussed

• charging batteries either in the Galley or possibly berth area
• Dept of Fire Protection Engineering, U of Maryland video
  
• electrical fires are often a factor
  
• boat fires DO burn quickly
• electrical wiring faults inside walls can smolder for hours before bursting into flame
• Boat USA Foundation boat fire video

Original location of fire not yet established

• former owner believes it started in passenger berth area
• some believe it started in galley/salon area

Conception's layout and facilities

• all electric no propane or other fuel used for cooking
• Nuvair Membrane Nitrox = NO banked Oxygen
  
• O2 First aid tanks or stage bottles were aft (last to burn)
• Conception Safety Video link
  
• Post fire picture
• News footage raising the Conception

Exits from Dorm

• main exit - stairs to starboard forward end of the dorm to the galley/salon.
• emergency hatch above bunks at aft end of dorm exited in aft portion of the salon, just inside the passageway to the after deck.
• no locked doors to the galley, salon or berth area.

The design of berth area and escape hatches discussed extensively. It meets current USCG standards which many believe may be changed as a result of this tragedy.

Excellent DAN article Mental Health post incident

Out of Darkness comes light and Hope

• Reef Seekers set out new procedures for their scheduled trips
• Nautilus Lady is already having changes made
  
• Individuals are planning personal changes to stay safe

Related threads

A personal perspective on California Live-aboards
Discussion of legal aspects here
Battery discussions here
Condolences posted here
Donations here

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[Maxwell Smart]

I'm wondering if that sound could have been a flashover event, perhaps from the bunks to the salon. It would explain the fire being everywhere, and the quick escalation of events from that point forward.

Pardon my inexperience, but what is a flashover event?

 

[Akimbo]

Pardon my inexperience, but what is a flashover event?

Wikipedia to the rescue: Flashover

EDIT:

​

 

[Wookie]

Pardon my inexperience, but what is a flashover event?

Did you ever see the movie Backdraft?

A smoldering fire generates a tremendous amount of very hot flammable gas, completing 2 legs of the fire tetrahedron. Add air and it acts like an incendiary event, and the whole area flashes to fire, including the solids.

 

[Bob DBF]

that mentioned freezing as being problematic for sprinkler systems - not in CA it isn't. If the temp is below 32 f/0f, something is going horribly wrong and I honestly doubt people would be diving.

Ok for SoCal, however the solution has to be fo all overnight passengers craft of this type in the US. The government, USCG in this case, likes a one size fits all solution.

Arg, the embedded quote didn't show up, but it was talking about new rules, which included a night watch. Does that mean the culture was there was no night watch before?

There was always supposed to be a night watch. On the dive boats I spent nights on there was one. As an old Navy habit, when I get up at night for a head call or just awake, I always walk around and check things out. During these walks I would run across the watch and chat, as I know how boring watches can get. It's not a bad habit for anyone.

Haven't been on the boats down there, but my guess would be "no". CA is not smoking friendly.

there were two stairways leading from the aft part of the salon to the bunkhouse.

I believe the requirement is two exits, if so it may meet requirements without requiring a third, in this case, emergency exit.

The way to fix this is to refit the bunkroom escape exit so there is direct access to the outside. Multiple exits if that sort wouldn’t hurt either one bit.

The only way is through the hull, or a watertight bulkhead, and the USCG gets pretty upset about comprising hull integraty.


Bob

 

[SapphireMind]

Assuming you mean the Dawn Light, to the best of my knowledge, it only has a fire hose and fire extinguishers. I'm heading down to the harbour now so if I see the new owner, I'll ask him. He's been doing a ton of wok on the boat to being it up to current CG standards. He has no intentions of running a LOB again as he's not a diver, but he plans on renting berths out like a B and B I think.

Also, there have been several references to the "cold water" in California. Isn't it generally in the 50s and low 60s? By Tobermory standards, that's as warm as it ever gets here and that lasts for about 15 minutes at the end of August before it begins to cool off again. I can't imagine that California temps at sea level would pose much risk of a sprinkler system freezing up.

Definitely not an issue. While the water is chilly, it's not freezing.

Not intending to be reasons not to implement something like it, but two thoughts:
- A closed charging cabinet would need substantial ventilation, especially in warmer climates.
- Charging on a schedule would probably result in a push towards faster charging, which in itself increases risk of mishaps.

Overheating is something that causes the fires with those batteries, so that would be a concern. That's why though it is important to think of safety changes, they have to be thought through, because the fixes can cause additional problems.

You could use USB hubs for charging, which limit/meter the amount of juice going to the batteries.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

None of this needs to be rocket science nor overly draconian

A charging area just needs to be fire resistant. A metal bench would do. You can have a dedicated surge protected circuit for those dedicated outlets, with sufficient cable sizing to be resistant to "overloading" In the Dist board you can have a timer RCD protected breaker, which energises and de-energises that circuit at set periods e.g. on between 6am to 9pm

Why not just have a standing rule that NOTHING get’s plugged in at night period. Put a locked cover on every outlet with a padlock so the entitled prince or princess can’t get up at night and sneak a charge in on their ever so important device.
The 24 hr watch should keep an eye on this anyway.

Then you ensure that the internal fixtures and fittings aren't made from some cheep wood brought at ACE, covered with some nicely flammable varnish

What’s the difference between cheap wood and expensive wood?
How about textured aluminum for interior panelling?

The Offshore Industry has been doing this for years, even nursing homes have fire proof (not resistant proof) soft furnishings and materials.

Leather seat coverings, but what about the cushion foam? You also make no mention of where all the synthetic boat coats should be hung. How about a vented closet? That’s a huge fuel source, all open and airy just waiting to go up in flames.

Then the same basic fire warning and protection you get in any hotel built to recent building code.

So the vinyl cushions on chairs, carpets, bed spreads, wooden furniture in modern hotel rooms do not burn then?

Being able to cheaply fit out a boat with substandard materials is ludicrous and it being able to pass inspection equally so.

What is the difference between “substandard materials” and “standard” materials as far as fire safety? Or is it just a looks and premium product hype thing?
Is there a hard precedent set on what is cheap and substandard and what is acceptable materials for interiors of boats? How does an overseeing agency check for that?