Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[chillyinCanada]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

AS HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY POSTED WITHIN THIS THREAD

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[KathyV]

‘Conception’ Safety Video Shows Tight Quarters of Bunk Room, Escape Hatch

All Six ‘Conception’ Crew Members Were Asleep When Fire Started

 

[Ken Kurtis]

‘Conception’ Safety Video Shows Tight Quarters of Bunk Room, Escape Hatch

Just for clarification . . . "Tight Quarters" is an editorial judgement of the newspaper's headline writer. The other day, I plowed through 127 pages of CFR-2012-title46-chapter7-subchapterT which deals with all sorts of minutiae about the requirements for a commercial passenger vessel. Specifically relating to bunks, here's what the requirements are (177.810):
• Length must be at least 74" (6'2")
• Width must be at least 24"
• Clearance to the next bunk above must be at least 24"
• Bunks can be no more than 3 high
• If uppermost bunk is more than 60" above the deck it's need an access ladder
• Aisles must be 24" wide
• Escape hatches must be marked in letters at least 2" high unless exempted by OCMI

Conception met these standards. Now, whether the standards are adequate is a whole different discussion. But the implication that the design of the bunkroom may have contributed to the death of the passengers and is Conception's fault is unfair. (Not saying this is what KathyV is implying but what the newspaper is implying.)

 

[Snoweman]

Just for clarification . . . "Tight Quarters" is an editorial judgement of the newspaper's headline writer. The other day, I plowed through 127 pages of CFR-2012-title46-chapter7-subchapterT which deals with all sorts of minutiae about the requirements for a commercial passenger vessel. Specifically relating to bunks, here's what the requirements are (177.810):
• Length must be at least 74" (6'2")
• Width must be at least 24"
• Clearance to the next bunk above must be at least 24"
• Bunks can be no more than 3 high
• If uppermost bunk is more than 60" above the deck it's need an access ladder
• Aisles must be 24" wide
• Escape hatches must be marked in letters at least 2" high unless exempted by OCMI

Conception met these standards. Now, whether the standards are adequate is a whole different discussion. But the implication that the design of the bunkroom may have contributed to the death of the passengers and is Conception's fault is unfair. (Not saying this is what KathyV is implying but what the newspaper is implying.)

You're right. "Tight quarters" is a judgement. For me, being 6'4" and over 250 lbs, those minimums are really tight. Probably much tighter in a panic situation.

 

[Sven-G]

But the implication that the design of the bunkroom may have contributed to the death of the passengers and is Conception's fault is unfair.

To avoid muddying the waters those two should not be conflated. "[T]he design of the bunkroom may have contributed to the death of the passengers" is one issue. "[A]nd is Conception's fault" is a separate issue. How the two statements are linked together is a third issue.

At this point precision is getting more important than it was when it was all uninformed speculation.

-Sven

 

[Luis H]

I just got an E-mail from a friend who is aboard the Nautilus Gallant Lady in Cabo Harbor. The departure was delayed the owner, Mike Lever, decided to install a fire suppression and sprinkler system below deck. He also had a contractor make an additional escape hatch for the below deck state rooms. He also wrote "The Conception has real gotten the attention of dive boat operators".

I asked him to take pictures and get specs on the sprinkler system. He should be back in a week or so.

I would like to see fire suppression / sprinkler system below become part of the conversation in the future. I don't believe it to be that expensive of a retrofit if hiding the pipes (for aesthetics) is not an issue.

I was talking to a co-worker (a mechanical engineer with a masters in fire suppression science) about this incident and she considers that sprinklers system is one of the best cost effective risk mitigations steps to take.

 

[Bob DBF]

I was talking to a co-worker (a mechanical engineer with a masters in fire suppression science) about this incident and she considers that sprinklers system is one of the best cost effective risk mitigations steps to take.

As long as the bilge pumps are upgraded and backed up to dewater the compartment, I'd like it. Most sprinkler systems don't have to worry about where the water goes as it puts out the fire, and how long survivors, in their nightclothes, last in 50 degree water.


Bob

 

[drrich2]

For people who haven't looked into the Truth Aquatics offerings, it's worth noting they also offered limited load trips. People didn't have to book crowded conditions.

On the sprinkler system in the bunk room issue, if people aren't allowed to charge batteries in the bunk room, is that still a credible enough threat to warrant such measures? Any system you install may malfunction; wouldn't want the sprinkler system hosing us down unnecessarily.

And while it might seem cost effective to install a sprinkler system in a boat with a large, 'common' bunk room, what about boats more similar to the Caribbean live-aboard model, where there are several individual staterooms?

What about all those 'house boats' people stay in, in marinas? Yachts or what-have-you. Where do bedrooms tend to be on those? How many exits? Do they have sprinkler systems? Just curious as to what the evident broader community practice of 'residential' boats other than dive boats shows people accepting. I get that a commercial vessel with paying passengers is in a different legal position; I just want to know know how people 'vote with their feet' (or their own boats).

Richard.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

What I’d like to see in the future of California dive boats is steel. I’d also like to see a redesign of how boats are laid out. Instead of having the sleeping quarters down below in a hole I think they should be deck level with multiple exits/ escape options directly to the outside. If that means the salon would be down below in the belly of the boat then I guess that’s how it would be. A good ventilation system would need to be used for cooking etc. also port hole windows for light.
Boats might need to be larger to accommodate a modernized ideal, perhaps a somewhat split level design or even a longer boat in the 100’ LOA range to provide a single level design for both the galley and bunking quarters?
Battery charging stations should be in a separate fire proof room. No charging of anything unless it’s in that room. Sprinkler systems could be employed as long as there is sufficient bilge pump volume to handle the influx of water. However, If everything critical was at deck level then fire sprinkler water would just exit out of the cabins and out the deck scuppers.
This is just all imaginary and wishful abstract thinking of my wandering mind at this point...just thinking out loud.

I don’t know how long these 70’s model plywood boats will be able to be grandfathered as safe passenger vessels, and especially that type of design which is just about every California LOB boat of that era.
California doesn’t have a very strong global draw as a “dive destination”, so this is a really bad black eye for CA dive boats....in so many ways starting with the biggest heart crushing pain from the loss of life, and then with the loss of confidence, even though we really want to support our special little corner of the LOB world, this really sucks in so many ways!!!
I just hope it doesn’t damage it so bad that they all drop off one by one.
I’m not seeing how the math would work to commission all new constructions of dive boats in Cali to conform to some new ruling if it ever came to that.
To say that none of the boats have ever had something this horrible ever happen in over 40 years of service doesn’t address the reality that IT DID HAPPEN.
Maybe with the way technology has developed and all the toys that need charging (if that’s indeed what caused the fire) perhaps the older boats are not fit for service any longer because of their design and construction materials.
When those boats were built plywood was a perfectly acceptable medium.
There also weren’t the electrical demands and the stresses placed on the electrical systems of boats like there is now. Back in the day there was maybe two or three people lucky enough to have a Nikonos camera rig and the strobes ran off regular batteries.
There were no lap tops, cell phones, go pros, rechargeable camera strobes, etc.
All this stuff is a reality and isn’t going away.

I’m still reeling over this whole ordeal.
I had a little case of scubaboard fatigue and stayed off for a few days, and especially out of this thread. Thank you mods for keeping it cleaned up and civil.

 

[Bob DBF]

For people who haven't looked into the Truth Aquatics offerings, it's worth noting they also offered limited load trips. People didn't have to book crowded conditions.

Limited load trips are infrequent, although any group that charters the boat can do a limited load but it also is infrequent. Most divers are looking for an inexpensive trip, and you can't do that with a limited load.

On the sprinkler system in the bunk room issue, if people aren't allowed to charge batteries in the bunk room, is that still a credible enough threat to warrant such measures?

We don't know if that was the cause. Regardless, it does not change the speed at which a fiberglass boat burns and a sprinkler system can buy time.

What about all those 'house boats' people stay in, in marinas? Yachts or what-have-you.

Well they don't have thirty odd people aboard, and don't carry passengers for hire.


Bob