Fins and finning advice

[BLD_THRST]

Hi guys,

This is my first post after reading so many interesting comments from the dive gurus in this forum… Nothing beats learning from the experience of my underwater breathing buddies right?

I got my OW certification the beginning of this year and have logged about 15 dives so far (all warm water dives)… I am currently using the Tusa xpert zoom full foot split fin… it’s a good and light travel fin but I tend to have some difficulty with long surface swims when there is a current… (my flutter kick could be off… *blush*) Also, I find that the split fin has a tendency to kick up sediments when I am too close the bottom, which is bad for the diver behind me *blush*

I can only do the flutter and dolphin kicks but from the comments on the forum, the frog kick should eliminate the sediments problem especially since I love swimming really close to the reef… Have seen the videos on the divetekadventure site on the frog kick style but can seem to figure out how it works…. Have tried doing it lying down but cant twist my ankle enough to get the fin flat during the thrust motion…. Can someone give me some instructions on how to do this? Will be going for my AOW this weekend and will also ask my instructor how to perform the frog kick…

Also, would the paddle fin be better to perform the frog kick? There is mild to negligible current on the local dive sites… I am considering between a used pair of Mares X3 and the Apollo bio fin pro (black or yellow)…. There is an obvious difference in the price… There are many rave feedback on the Quattros but none on the X3… Not sure if having one less “flute” as compared to the Quattros would make much of a difference.

Other open heel options include the Technisub Stratos and Atomic Liquid Blue. The Jets are not available here and the twinjets are much more expensive than the Apollos, so its not an option for me…. Which is a good option for a long term investment considering that I wanna make the frog kick my permanent finning style? (I am considering the open heel option for the protection of booties for shore dives)

Would appreciate some advice.

 

[TSandM]

I don't know anything about the specific fins you mention, except the TwinJets, which are not optimal for frog-kicking. You want a relatively stiff paddle fin for the best frog kick. I did my Fundies class in a pair of Razors, because they were the only non-split fins we owned. I had a heck of a time getting the frog kick, despite the instructor going down and actually grabbing my fins and patterning me through it. That evening, on the video, he showed me what my fins were doing -- they were bending almost in half. I wasn't getting the proprioceptive feedback I needed to get the kick sorted out.

I bought classic Jet fins that night, and dove them the following day in the class, and although I loathed the way they felt during the surface swim, the minute I submerged, the frog kick came easily.

The frog kick is easily described -- if in proper trim, with the knees bent and the fins flat, parallel to the seafloor, gently separate the feet, keeping the fins flat. Turn the ankles, and clap the soles of your feet together like a seal claps its fins. Turn the fins flat, and start again. But it is very easy to get the whole sequence backwards, as I did at the beginning. It's really best to work on this initially with someone who knows how it's done. Perhaps your AOW instructor will know how to do it, but a lot of recreational divers and dive instructors don't. You might be better served to post in your local forum, asking if there's a technical diver in your area who can give you a hand.

Another aid would be to order the Essentials or Intro to Tech DVD from 5thD-x.com They have much better examples of the kicks, and the Intro to Tech DVD has grease pencil highlighting and voiceovers to add detail to the film sequences. Not as good as an instructor, but much better than little grainy images on the net.

 

[rawls]

I agree with TSandM. It would be better to use a solid blade for frog kicks...I use a stiff vented fin and have no problem with frog kicks. As far as split fins in currents...I won't use them in currents because I don't think they are very effective...That's all I'm going to say about that...lest I open up a big ole can o worms...

 

[Jason Ooi]

Welcome to :sblogo:
I strong agreed with TSandM....If you love frog kicking try Scubapro Jet fin, I love it..

 

[CIBDiving]

the Apolo Bios are the best of the split fins. You can do a frog kick in split fins it's just done a little differently then with a ridged non split fin. NOTHING will eliminate silting until you learn to stay off the bottom! With only 15 dive Please don't swim to close to the reef. Ignore those who can't do and still have an opinon ie ALL THE BELOW.

 

[Ed Marshall]

You don't need to do a frog kick with Tusa Xpert Zooms to avoid silting up the area around you. They are not designed for that. First, as others have mentioned, learn to use your buoyancy to stay a respectful distance from the bottom. Second, keep your trim horizontal (so your feet aren't angled down). Third, use a modified frog kick instead: a flutter kick where your knees are always bent. The funky angle of these fins will always direct your thrust away from the bottom. That's a design feature.

I use these fins in a very shallow and environmentally fragile spring lake here in Texas. As a certified scientific diver, I am not allowed to make contact with anything during these dives, including the bottom. I find them to be very adept at moving in tight quarters without disturbing my surroundings, and I rarely frog kick unless I'm trying to move as slowly as possible, for example, when taking pictures.

On the other hand, if none of this works for you, or you really, really just want to frog kick, buy different fins.

Ed

 

[Meng_Tze]

Third, use a modified frog kick instead: a flutter kick where your knees are always bent.

Ed

Correction:

Mod Frog is where you only use the ankles to move the fins, knees move only slightly (full frog has the hips, knees and ankles moving).

Flutter is what everyone learns when they start of diving. Mod flutter is where the knees are bent and the flutter itself comes from the ankles and some minor movement of the knees.

 

[Scubaguy62]

There's a third way to do the frog kick; you bend the knees keeping your feet above you and parallel to the bottom; you then pull your feet towards your butt while keeping your fins parallel to the bottom; then point your feet away from your body, and push out; repeat after that. At any rate, all frog kicks require good, near excellent trim, otherwise you will have problems with your buoyancy and your depth. I frog kick 99.99 % of the time, and own both Jet Fins (my favorite), and Mares Quattro (my second favorite). I've tried the frog kick with a pair of Mares Volos, and it seems it would work ok, but they bend too much at the middle. The only splits I've ever tried have been the Atomic Splits (had no choice in the matter as it was the dive at Epcot Center), with which inadvertently I did a somewhat effective frog kick, although without much thrust. In general, splits are more effective on a flutter kick than on a frog kick

 

[DiveGal01]

There's a third way to do the frog kick; you bend the knees keeping your feet above you and parallel to the bottom; you then pull your feet towards your butt while keeping your fins parallel to the bottom; then point your feet away from your body, and push out; repeat after that. At any rate, all frog kicks require good, near excellent trim, otherwise you will have problems with your buoyancy and your depth.

This is a technic used in cave diving. Very good description and helps to keep from silting up the bottom. I've found that new divers like using the split fins and old divers swear by their Jet Fins (I guess I'm an old diver ) I personally think Jet Fins rock for diving and work great for frog kicks. If they aren't available at your LDS, you can order them on-line.

I hope this helps.

 

[BLD_THRST]

Thanks guys. Jus completed my AOW last weekend and hope to try the frog using a paddle fin i am planning to get soon.