Finally, Bonex Reference RS to my stable.

[kingkong072]

OK, I must admit, I'm a gear whole...I was fortunate enough to own several DPVs and now I must say I'm one happy camper to have Bonex in my stable.
I have to first thank SubGravity for bringing Bonex line to US and John at ScubaGlow for his knowledge and input; most importantly, ordering me one and keeping me company on such a long wait!!( 3Months) I guess its one of those things that one must go thru when your early adopters of any product, especially from Europe. If your local to NE and are considering DPV in the future be sure to pick his brain before making a purchase.
I have been a lurker for a long time and just want to return the favor and hopefully someone would find my biased opinions useful someday.
During my single tank diving days, I went and invested on Pegasus Thruster, it was OK for single tank diving but soon as I moved onto double tanks, I found it to be inadequate.
Along the long journey, I have made many of my dive buddies very happy with unbelievable deals on lightly used DPVs. And also developed certain taste in need for speed and enjoyed hard pull on the crotch.
Of those that left lasting impressions on my crotch were Silent Submersion Magnus and Suex XK1, I still can't help it but to compare it to these power houses like in this review. At one point, I had upgraded my Magnus with aluminum prop and I had access to XK1 with 5 bladed prop. (XK1 with 5bladed props will leave your crotch numb)
On initial speculation, Bonex seemed so small and short compared to XK1 or Magnus. The size of the shroud and prop on Reference seemed like a toy compared to Magnus and XK1. When you turn on the trigger on those DPVs you can feel and hear substantial volume of air the props are moving.
When I turned new Reference on I said to my self in dismay, that I made my dive buddies happy again with great deal.
I was also concerned about ride quality. Magnus and XK1 have enough length on the hull to stay smooth and straight. From my experience, shorter hulls gave quick turns but was not smooth and somewhat jumpy.
Boy was I wrong!! Today, I was able to ride Bonex with XK1 and amazingly, it was neck to neck if not faster(To be fair, I had 5 blade prop on Bonex too)!! Amazing how Bonex can pack that much punch in small package and keep up with speed and ride quality.
I'm a believer now...Good Job Bonex!!! One can compare specs on the paper and say otherwise, but what really matters is how it performs in water. From performance standpoint, it has approval from my crotch and I think it will be my go to arsenal of my stable.
Now let me go scratch up that Carbon Fiber hull in salt water and see how it does in current...will report in with more features and longevity...I'm kinda hard on my gears...
Kyung

 

[CCR Josh]

Thanks for sharing Kyung! You are so right, looking at specs on paper is one thing and comparing in the water is a whole other thing!

Glad to hear you are happy with your purchase so far. Don't hesitate to let us know if we can help in any way.


Sent from my rebreather using Tapatalk

 

[MixAddict]

Enjoy your new underwater rocket! The SubGravity Reference RS engineered by BONEX is a piece of art that has an amazing amount of thrust and rides smooth!

 

[kingkong072]

Reporting in from real water conditions.
It was full moon yesterday at RI. Generally, that causes some strong currents. One particular location that we frequent is known to catch unobserving divers far out to the sea, but yet handful of divers return to exercise their leg muscles without regards to tides...
Either way we are used to some harsh conditions and we didn't let that bother us too much, plus we had backup plan. Intentionally, started our dive few hours after the slack...wanting to exercise leg muscles.
There are some spots when all the worst conditions are met, that puts DPVs dead stop on their track. And my dive buddy was once stopped not going anywhere with my modified SS Magnus on full throttle.
I'm a big wussy and rather avoid that kind of situations even with DPVs, but today I had to see how my shiny Reference RS handles in that sort a situations. Hence, I intentionally postponed my descent to see how she performs in that sorta conditions. Now, this wasn't the exact same location/condition where my buddy was stopped, but it was somewhat similar spot where your physical condition/gear (DPV in this case) is challenged.
Reference has been in my possession for only 2 days and I have already war scars from underwater battle. I don't think I need to worry about carbon hull/shroud breaking. Really wonder if I should put put another coating of resin on carbon fiber hull and shroud, just to keep it shiny... but will see...

Long story short, I love my Bonex!! This is one heck of a scooter, and this DPV is definitely a formidable contender to already established king of the hills DPVs like Magnus, XK1 and Genesis etc.
So many choices are out there, one really needs to think price point/features and most importantly, can you get it serviced( I hope there will be a service center in NE)?
My biased choice...Reference RS !!

Kyung

---------- Post added September 28th, 2015 at 01:49 AM ----------

Josh,

I really need the navigation unit. Just the mount rather than the entire unit.

Kyung

 

[cmck1]

Kyung, congratulations on your recent purchase but several of your comments require correction. There has been a lot of misinformation so easiest to correct now. I would also caution against scratching the hull as I understand it may void the warranty. Bonex or Sub Gravity should be able to clarify the warranty as it pertains to scratches but I understand warranty claims have been denied in Europe due to scratches. You also want to be sure to closely inspect the hull after each dive to ensure hull integrity and make sure you install the hull the right way as the diameter is different on each end because the tube is oval. I recently used the RS and was surprised to discover that the hull actually has a seam where the carbon fiber material meets.

As for performance, your new scooter may match the the claimed thrust but it will not do so for long. At full speed using a 3-blade propeller you can expect 30-33kg of thrust for approximately 5 minutes, from 6-25 minutes you can expect 27-29kg of thurst and from 25 to 100 minutes you can expect 19-21kg of thrust. This occurs because the electronically controlled motor creates too much heat and the begins to limit output to protect the motor. The Suex XK1 motor does not experience this problem and maintains significantly higher thrust throughout the entire burn curve. The XK1 motor was specifically designed for this purpose. The XK1 battery also has 50% more capacity than the Bonex. Since John Glowdowski is very familar with Suex having demo'd them at Dutch for the past 2 years, he should be able to arrange a test run more than 25 minutes long where you will really see the motor performance differences. If you would like to see the graph data just pm me off forum and I will send to you. If you would like a summary of the Suex feature advantages such as no tools required to remove the battery or salt water ballast, isolated motor compartment to protect the motor from salt spray, no stainless steel screws into the aluminum housing, no sacrificial anodes, a single piece removable propeller as opposed to multiple pieces on the Bonex, a liquid filled shaft seal design which is better shallow and deep, no annoying soft start, a LED battery gauge to monitor while diving, a LCD battery gauge on the battery pack, a true electronics failure bypass, etc. please let me know. I have been using Suex for long range cave exploration for more than 7 years and a large number of cave explorers along with military divers worldwide rely on Suex. Perhaps ask Sub Gravity about their experience using Bonex over the years? Good Diving, Casey

 

[MixAddict]

Dear readers, please note that Casey is an employee of SUEX, so please take his comments about BONEX with a grain of salt. SubGravity does not intend to do Internet forum battle with one of our competitors who is obviously VERY nervous about a very serious competitor in the marketplace. -

 

[kingkong072]

Hi Casey,
Thank you.
I come out genuinely as possible and do not want to stir up the water for I know where this can lead to. But I feel resposible for starting up the post and would like to further add my limited input on the matter.
Firstly, I am in no way as established diver like yourshelf in diving community, nor have technical knowledge or labs for that matter to test out DPVs.
I'm just average diver that likes DPVs to assist in my diving. We have no caves up here but we do have quite a number of wrecks and shore dive points which you have to be mindful of current and tide situations. And in training to become a caver...
I do not completely rely on DPVs on my diving but I use it as a tool to ease my diving.
That being said I have had chances to be on several DPVs and I am on a mission to find me something that suits my diving style.
These are my current stable of DPVs and I'm sure it will change over time.
Very far left is SS Magnus with aluminum prop, in the middle is Suex XJoy 37 with removable 4 blade prop, and lastly Bonex Reference RS removable 5 blade prop.
And have few friends that got great deal on SS Viper, and Dive Xtra Cuda 400.


I am in no way showing off my DPVs but just trying to make a point that I have been on current stocks of established DPVs and I have over time developed my own opinion of what I like and dislike about certain DPVs.
I guess you can assume why I still have some and why I made my friends happy over time.
Currently, now with Reference RS, Magnus will be en route to make my other buddy very happy.

Believe it or not, I am a die-hard Suex lover, and that is why I still have XJoy 37 and you don't have to tell me twice about all the features that why I fell in love with SUEX in the first place. I pulled the trigger on XJoy 37 while I had SS Viper which I can say it pulled bit harder than XJoy37. If Subgravity didn't bring Bonex into US, I'd probably riding XK1 now...The quality of materials used, battery level readout on the battery, external led battery gauge which shows simple rule of thirds, simplest drop in salt water ballast (really tool free) single piece removable prop, no sacrificial anode, liquid filled double shaft seal, isolated compartment in case of water intrusion, etc... and many more but I just love the attention to the detail, the ride, the handle, smooth riding and it just feels like and is a fine Italian machine...

But having been on SS Magnus, I wanted little more than XJoy 37, in power department. XK1(w/ 5blade prop) with massive thrust that will leave your crotch beyond painful, just simply numb. It's tad bit heavier than Magnus and with longer hull looks like it might be uncomfy in boat or when shore diving with all other gears you have to haul in my opinion.
Then came Bonex, at the time of ordering one and still to this day there is only manufacturer's data which in real world situation might be skewed to favor you know who.
Without even test riding one and only to rely on the performance and features from paper, I knew I was gambling on this one. But like always, I had my trusty buddies who were looking for DPVs at great price, so that was my backup plan. Hence, that was the reason why I wrote what I had written on previous posts...to give somewhat biased opinion and hopefully help someone in their mission to find their DPV...

So, on to the Bonex Reference RS...remember this is BIASED opinion because I own one, and I'll try not to sound so skewed...

As far as warranty goes, I'll leave it to Sub-Gravity to come in and honor their product. I hope they don't leave me hanggin when I go to them with a problem.

Durability of the hull? Only time will tell...I hope it lasts...if not, I always have my trusty XJoy37.

Ovalness of the hull, this I do not agree...As you can see in the attachment, outside, there is joinning carbonfiber that runs across but inside is smooth. If it was oval or not smooth, Reference would be underwater already. Due to hull not sealing tight enough onto motor compartment which is perfectly round.


Tool less ballast, yes and no...I have modded mine to be tooless, but it should have came from factory like this...


Single piece removable prop...I like Suex's removable prop, it's so easy to lock and unwind prop off compared to unscrewing the cap and removing the prop. If you lose the cap while unscrewing, you are SCREWED !!! literally.

Battery level read out on the battery...yeah I miss that on my Reference...though, I am planning on using volt meter to find where my battery level stands...but more work...

External Battery Gauge...I really miss this feature so much

No sacrificial anode...would be nice too if it had this feature but, as I am harsh on my gears, I am not that lazy to spend $$$ and not care about maintenance on my gears...

Liquid filled seal...I haven't opened up my tail end to expose type of seal that Reference has but unless it's Genesis' magnetic shaft seal, I have grown to accept mechanical carbon/ceramic seal as SS has been using them for awhile and it seems to be reliable in cave environment. But yes I do envy SUEX seal.

Compartment intrusion protection...I miss this also.

Most importantly, the performance...I am really not disappointed that thrust is reduced over period of time if it is being ran at full throttle over long length of time. I have leisurely tested performance of Reference RS with XK1 both having 5 props in uncontrolled environment with full set of gears(doubles, dry suit etc.)
Yes, Reference RS has issues with high heat when ran at full throttle for long periods and I was really concerned about this that I wouldn't want my scoot to temporary stop due to high heat issues on the motor and I actually find your lab test relieving that it still runs but at lower thrust.
Honestly, Casey, that lowered thrust output at lengthened run time is just about equivalent as SUEX's ADV units and SS's Viper and Minnus which is proving them selves in cave exploration if I dare to assume. That's about the top thrust of my XJOY 37...and I know my Viper's speed... really, Casey, I did not find my Reference slowing down to Viper's nor XJoy 37's speed...
My Magnus when ran at full throttle for close to an hour which I have done many times, has had high heat issues on the motor cone...yet it proved to run strong time after time.
I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but I know from being on XK1 many times to really know it's strong points and why it is formidable DPV and why it is choice of military and cave explorers, but Reference RS really is tough contender. It doesn't kick XK1's ass but it does give good fight.
I don't have the technical knowledge why with lower thrust power it runs right next to XK1, but have dove with John several times in quarry to know this.
But just to satisfy my curiosity I will arrange controlled test over lengthened time with John to scratch my itch.

All the nice features of SUEX outweigh Bonex, but my gut kinda tells me to grab Reference's handle...I like the nice compact feature of Bonex and if my diving ever goes beyond 1.5 hrs (running full throttle...but I'm still happy running at half speed most of the time), I'd like to upgrade my hull and the battery to run close to 4hrs (full throttle)...and still be lighter than XK1 and shorter.

If SUEX ever comes out with something in between XJOY37 and XK1, you know I'll be the first customer waiting online...

Lastly, I hope none of the DPV manufacturers rest on their laurels.

Kyung

Sorry for long post...

 

[kingkong072]

While I'm at it, let me add some more comments.

Here is tool less rear ballast. (I have to thank John @ Scubaglow for making all the mods for me...he also did the navigation mount and the front tool less ballast)


Navigation unit which was machined off derlin and brass screws to keep compass as true as possible.


And the left handle extension. It truly makes DPV left handed. Also while on long ride, you can rest your hand on it.

Now only if I can add SUEX's LED battery gauge...

There are more features of this DPV that I'd like to point out and why I like it so much, but Sub-gravity is already doing that on another post and I don't want to sound like sales person for Bonex.

If you are in market for one be sure to look up Bonex in your search. It is definitely a good machine with German engineering, it doesn't have massive thrust like XK1 but sure is efficient enough to keep up with one.

Kyung

 

[cmck1]

Oh Randy, have some fun, this is a Scuba Diving forum not the Wall Street Journal. Going to "battle" is not the purpose, correcting misinformation and pointing out critical design and performance differences is relevant for someone making a serious investment in this category. The performance data is spot on and was not tested by some diver riding around a lake with his friends. The unit was bench tested in a controlled environment and compared with results from others (military) that have done the same. Please bench test yourself and let us know . The design feature differences are also spot on. If you disagree, please let me know why? I would not waste my time promoting nonsense for the sake of discrediting a so-called competitor. I am neither nervous nor do I believe this product is serious. Objective comparisons can be made on internet forums in a tasteful and professional way. My "grain of salt" experience using, designing and ultimately selling the Suex products worldwide for more than 7 years allows me to confidently do so. Look at the majority of cutting edge cave explorers using Suex across the globe, look at the military customers and look at the product itself. Might I suggest doing more research about the products you decide to distribute or at a minimum using them first before you place an order and promote them as "serious"? One critical element you will discover as you build your brand in the technical diving community is that credibility is important to differentiate your product from others and this is established over time. Halcyon did it, Dive Rite did it, Light Monkey did it, DUI did it and Suex has done it to name a few. Others come and go. Consumer and Military scooters are the only business for Suex and this has been the case for more than 16 years. This is not a part time hobby for a company like Bonex where the main business is cheese packaging machines. I wish Sub Gravity the best and look forward to following your progress in the coming years. Best, Casey (Exec Mgr D3 Diving LLC, Suex Global Business Dev. Manager, Explorer)

---------- Post added October 16th, 2015 at 07:33 AM ----------

Kyung, your observations and detail were excellent. I would expect any potential dpv customer to find your observations useful and informative. Nicely done and good diving. Casey

 

[CCR Josh]

There are more features of this DPV that I'd like to point out and why I like it so much, but Sub-gravity is already doing that on another post and I don't want to sound like sales person for Bonex.

I'll point them out

See the thread Kyung is referring to here:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/di...ew-line-subgravity-dpvs-engineered-bonex.html