Fin technique with a Dry Suit

[Fishy8411]

Just used my Bare ATR-HD this weekend. Loved the suit, but my skills sucked. I am taking a course, but it is back to the pool to work on my finning. On my first dive I must of flipped over five or six times. On my second I was too cautious and kept myself near vertical and thus had little forward motion (but I worked my ass off). I imagine, I am just going to have to practice, practice and more practice. But if anyone has any advice I would sure appreciate it.



Thanks

Tom

 

[Lightning Fish]

What do you mean flipped over? Feet up or are you flipping side to side, ie. rolling? I'm also not sure how finning will cause you to flip over compared to finning with a wetsuit.

Without actually being there to see, it sounds like you are putting to much air in your suit and you're getting large air bubbles moving around that is throwing your trim off. Or migrating to your feet causing them to go up.

Try using the drysuit to releave squeeze and use your BC for bouyancy. Note, I'm assuming you are using the drysuit for squeeze and bouyancy.

Cheers,
Bill

 

[Diver0001]

Just used my Bare ATR-HD this weekend. Loved the suit, but my skills sucked. I am taking a course, but it is back to the pool to work on my finning. On my first dive I must of flipped over five or six times. On my second I was too cautious and kept myself near vertical and thus had little forward motion (but I worked my ass off). I imagine, I am just going to have to practice, practice and more practice. But if anyone has any advice I would sure appreciate it.



Thanks

Tom

Hi Tom,

Bill had a couple of good suggestions but I'll start with a couple of questions:

- what does "flipped over" mean?
- how much weight did you have and where is it placed?
- what kind of a tank do you have?
- have you done a buoyancy check in the suit yet?
- Are you having trouble with staying horizontal if you don't move?
- are you using the suit for buoyancy control?
- do the shoes fit? Are you using the trek boots?
- did you tighten up the gators?
- is the suit tight or baggy? If it's baggy did you pull the excess material up over your weightbelt?

Also I don't understand why are you asking about finning technique. How does this factor in to the problem you're having?

And finally, do you have similar problems in a wetsuit?

Let's just start with that.

R..

 

[Fishy8411]

Hi Tom,

Bill had a couple of good suggestions but I'll start with a couple of questions:

- what does "flipped over" mean?
- how much weight did you have and where is it placed?
- what kind of a tank do you have?
- have you done a buoyancy check in the suit yet?
- Are you having trouble with staying horizontal if you don't move?
- are you using the suit for buoyancy control?
- do the shoes fit? Are you using the trek boots?
- did you tighten up the gators?
- is the suit tight or baggy? If it's baggy did you pull the excess material up over your weightbelt?

Also I don't understand why are you asking about finning technique. How does this factor in to the problem you're having?

And finally, do you have similar problems in a wetsuit?

Let's just start with that.

R..

Thanks for the replies.

When I start to feel my legs pulling me up, I dive down and do a quick roll to get my torso or ass, higher than my feet. That is what I mean by flipping over. It is intentional but I shouldn't have to be doing it.

Diving with 32 pounds, 8 pounds in trim pockets by the tank, 16 in side drop pockets and 8 more in my side pockets. Weights balances out on either side.

Using a Steel 72

Did a bouyancy check with my instructor there, 32 pounds is probably a bit overweighted but 28 wasn't working.

Heck, I'm having trouble staying horizontal if I do move.

I am just using the suit to stay warm, not for bouyancy control. If anything, I am using too little air in the suit, it got pretty cold.

Gators are tight and I'm using trek shoes.

Everthing fits perfectly (in my opinion), I don't think a custom suit could do a better job.

I don't have any problem with a wetsuit.

It is just that I am having difficulty learning a finning technique that keeps my feet below the level of my rear end. The air migrates to my legs and I start to float legs up. I am trying to adjust my frog kick, but I am having difficulty.


Tom

 

[Diver0001]

Try keeping your knees bent and arching your back a bit (chest out). Also move the 8lbs from the trim pockets to a weightbelt and pull the suit up over the weightbelt so there's no baggy bits under the level of the weightbelt and try that in the pool for starters.

What kind of a bcd do you have? I don't know what you mean by side pocket and side drop pocket.

R..

 

[Lightning Fish]

Tom:

The first thing that I thought of when I read your second post is that your trim is off and your head and upper body hang low compared your lower body, allowing the air easy passage to your feet. I would suggest having a buddy monitor you for proper trim.

If you feel you are still learning to master the drysuit and the different bouyancy characteristics, you might consider ankle weights (~ 1 - 1.5 lbs per ankle) to help keep your feet down until you are more comfortable. I think you will find a split between those that like ankle weights and those that don't. Myself, once I bought my Bare Nexgen with the trek boots I stopped using them.

As for your original question, there is a way to fin that will counter a small positive lift from your feet, when you are hovering. When your knees are bent, fin from the ankle, moving just your feet up and down or side to side. Experiment and see what works. The idea is to create a downward thrust that will counter any positive lift from your feet. However, this may not help if there is an excess amount of air getting into your lower legs and feet.

Okay, I just re-read your second post. If you are trying to keep your feet below the level of your rear end, then that may contribute to the problem. Try bending at the knees, (isn't that what you want when frog kicking?). When your knees are bent you are constricting your suit at the knees and that makes it more difficult for air to flow to your feet.

Good luck!

Cheers,
Bill.

 

[Diver0001]

Tom:

The first thing that I thought of when I read your second post is that your trim is off and your head and upper body hang low compared your lower body, allowing the air easy passage to your feet. I would suggest having a buddy monitor you for proper trim.

.

Hey Bill,

Good suggestion about the buddy watching.

With the combination of trek boots and gaitors he's wearing I doubt that there is a lot of air going to the feet. My guess is it's accumulating in his lower-back and asss. That's why I suggested moving some weight to a weightbelt and pulling any excess material up over the belt. Moving the weights to a weightbelt gets it down lower, which will help keep his butt down. Moreover adding a weightbelt and pulling the excess material up over the belt will make the bubble in his butt smaller; the belt itself will create a little constriction around his middle to fight the dynamic instability and having the extra material higher up will keep the air in his upper body where it will create a little more lift where he needs it. They're all small changes but together they could make a world of difference.

R..

 

[String]

If "flipping over" means air migration then a few obvious things, firstly is the weighting correct? If using suit for buoynacy and overweighted you'll have lots of air to move about.

Secondly, are the legs and/or feet too big creating air spaces?

Thirdly, have you tried altering the tank position to help with trim ?

Fin technique really shouldnt be any different to normal with a drysuit. I would suggest trying ankle weights but if flipping that often i suspect they wont be heavy enough to have any effect.

 

[Fishy8411]

Hey Bill,

Good suggestion about the buddy watching.

With the combination of trek boots and gaitors he's wearing I doubt that there is a lot of air going to the feet. My guess is it's accumulating in his lower-back and asss. That's why I suggested moving some weight to a weightbelt and pulling any excess material up over the belt. Moving the weights to a weightbelt gets it down lower, which will help keep his butt down. Moreover adding a weightbelt and pulling the excess material up over the belt will make the bubble in his butt smaller; the belt itself will create a little constriction around his middle to fight the dynamic instability and having the extra material higher up will keep the air in his upper body where it will create a little more lift where he needs it. They're all small changes but together they could make a world of difference.

R..

Thank you all for the suggestions.

1) I will try and get someone to observe my next pool session.

2) Looking back, I was probably keeping my knees to straight for second dive, which resulted in poor finning and little forward motion.

3) I like the idea of using a weight belt to put weight lower on by torso, I will give it a try.

I have a jacket type BCD.

Thanks again

Tom

 

[Fishy8411]

Just a quick report.

I put 12 pounds on a weight belt and it worked wonders. No problem with my trim, no problem with finning.

Thanks for the advice.

Tom