Fin Pivot

[scubatim77]

yes it's PADI. I think the main reason for touching the bottom is for stability for newbies. (not super sure, mabey someone else knows?) and also so you can tell how much you rise and fall with a breath.

Says who it's PADI? I have had SSI, NASDS, and NAUI training, all three uses the fin pivot, can't we just say that it is a scuba skill?

 

[neil]

Says who it's PADI? I have had SSI, NASDS, and NAUI training, all three uses the fin pivot, can't we just say that it is a scuba skill?

Ah, my pet peeve. It's not a scuba skill, it's an introductory exercise to a scuba skill, namely neutral buoyancy. If your fins are on the bottom, you're not neutral (or trimmed properly). The fin pivot lets you experiment with breath control of bouyancy, but you shouldn't spend more than 5 or 10 minutes of your life doing one. PADI actually requires fin pivots to be demonstrated in OW, which is IMO, stupid. NAUI does not. I'm only conversant with those 2 agencies.

Neil

 

[jbd]

Says who it's PADI? I have had SSI, NASDS, and NAUI training, all three uses the fin pivot, can't we just say that it is a scuba skill?

I'm with Neil on this. Its not a scuba skill. While other instructors may use it, I don't spend time with it at all. The time spent on fin pivots is much better spent on being neutrally bouyant while being horizontal.

 

[ScubaFishee]

It's not a scuba skill, it's an introductory exercise to a scuba skill, namely neutral buoyancy. If your fins are on the bottom, you're not neutral (or trimmed properly).

Ahhhhhhh, and therein lies the rub...

I have "floaty feet" and I remember being chastied by my instructor for not being able to do a "proper" fin pivot. I could rise up and down, close to the bottom without touching it, using breath control. But since my feet would float up, I'd be horizontal with my feet slightly higher, and couldn't keep the tips of my fins on the bottom. I was told that unless your fins stay on the bottom, you're not doing it properly.

I'll never understand why I had to spend the time learning to keep my fins on the bottom, only to then be taught to keep them off the bottom.

 

[Jason B]

I'll never understand why I had to spend the time learning to keep my fins on the bottom, only to then be taught to keep them off the bottom.

Just curious, were your children taught to walk upright right off the bat or were they allowed to crawl around first?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Just curious, were your children taught to walk upright right off the bat or were they allowed to crawl around first?

It sounds like you're assuming that a fin pivot is a functional and necessary intermediate step.

From my personal experience in teaching a few hundred people to dive I can tell you that it isn't.

This is a good example...

I have "floaty feet" and I remember being chastied by my instructor for not being able to do a "proper" fin pivot. I could rise up and down, close to the bottom without touching it, using breath control. But since my feet would float up, I'd be horizontal with my feet slightly higher, and couldn't keep the tips of my fins on the bottom. I was told that unless your fins stay on the bottom, you're not doing it properly.

I'll never understand why I had to spend the time learning to keep my fins on the bottom, only to then be taught to keep them off the bottom.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen or heard of instructors taking a student who is near to being correctly trimmed and messed that up by using ankle weights or something to weight the student to keep their feet on the bottom.

I think a fin pivot can be used without screwing things up but I haven't found it to be the ideal way to teach trim and buoyancy control because if you are balanced correctly you'll need to really arch you back to keep your fins on the bottom. For a "good" fin pivot to be easy for a student they have to be balanced incorrectly.

It often develops bad habits that many divers never get rid of.

Learning buoyancy control isn't just learning to stay off the bottom. It's also about learning to control attitude in the water as well as position. To do that you need to be able to use your legs and you can't do that with them stuck to the bottom.

Unfortunately, diving is taught as though the bc was just invented and it hasn't been fully integrated into training yet. LOL

 

[ScubaFishee]

Just curious, were your children taught to walk upright right off the bat or were they allowed to crawl around first?

I don't have children, but if I did, and they started walking, I certainly wouldn't make them get down on their knees and crawl for three months first just because the child rearing books say that's the proper order in which things should be done.

 

[TCDiver1]

I'm with Neil on this. Its not a scuba skill. While other instructors may use it, I don't spend time with it at all. The time spent on fin pivots is much better spent on being neutrally bouyant while being horizontal.

I have found it to be a valuable skill for some on their way to learning buoyancy control. If a student has "floaty feet" and basically hovers horizontal while trying to perform a fin pivot, then they just whipped past the fin pivot to a hover. No problem. No need to make them do a fin pivot, they met the ultimate objective w/o doing one.

As far as doing a fin pivot in OW, in our area it sometimes becomes necessary for those that had their buoyancy control down pat for CW in a pool setting but now need to master it in a cold OW setting.

More exposure protection and weight placement to deal with in this cold OW situation. I've found a fin pivot can be a helpful skill to some in this case.

 

[Jason B]

I don't have children, but if I did, and they started walking, I certainly wouldn't make them get down on their knees and crawl for three months first just because the child rearing books say that's the proper order in which things should be done.

okay, you got me there...good point.

 

[Jason B]

I was just meaning that it isn't a skill a diver needs in the end, but in times can be a nice stepping stone to get a diver where they need to be...kinda like crawling as a child. Everyone has to start somewhere and as sad as it may seem, we don't all possess the same talents, and progress at different rates. What works for one person may not work for another. Some people are visual learners, some are auditory and some like to jump right in and try things (Kinesthetic & Tactile).