Suggestion Feedback on keeping ScubaBoard members

[gypsyjim]

This question is directed at all members, new and old. It is actually a multiple part question, and is designed to get us all thinking about what ScubaBoard is, or could be for someone just discovering us today or tomorrow.

Two weeks ago on Utila Colleen and I were part of 4 couples with no previous contact who were diving on the same boat for a week, so we had lots of time to chat. It turned out that 5 (6 including myself) of the 9 divers including the DM, were all members of ScubaBoard at one time or another, but I was the only actively participating SM user.

A subsequent conversation with a friend who is also a moderator, has had me thinking about this, so here are my questions:

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1) What attracted you to ScubaBoard in the first place?

2) Are you satisfied that the board addresses your needs adequately? And if not what would you change, if you could to make it do so

3) Why do you think other folks who have joined, have not stayed around?

4) Do you have ideas on what the board either did not provide well, or what might have done to scare them away, without becoming participating members?

5) Do you have ideas or suggestions of new ways to both attract and keep new members, new divers involved, and satisfied with this forum?
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---------- Post added March 3rd, 2014 at 08:30 AM ----------

I will start by adding my own 2 cents.

I discovered SB while researching a dive trip back in '05, and was not a terribly active member for some time. I did though, find the info I was seeking.

I did soon after that did make some friends on the board, as both DeputyDan and Herman offered advice and invited my family to join their group for a trip to Bonaire.

I also later asked for underwater photography advice, and got a lot of help from such diverse members as ScubaSteve and DandyDon, who were more than willing to help a struggling novice.

I had a few conflicts in some of the threads along the way, especially early on, with some of the more vocal know it alls, but while that slowed me down a bit and kept me quiet, it did not scare me off. I just spent more time lurking till I became more comfortable standing up for my beliefs, and not afraid of the loud mouths. It just took me time to realize by lurking that they were a small minority, and not particularly as well respected universally as they might have thought, which made me feel less the outsider.

(Note) I think a lot of that 'know it all' attitude seems to have disappeared from the boards, or at least become far less of an issue. I heard a lot of feedback from non member divers between '95 and about 2000 that this "slamming of 'stupid questions' " was a big turn off, but I do not sense this same complaint from my more recent contactsd, when discussing SB. Now it seems more like SB is not supplying what divers are seeking, and they are just moving on to other sources of info.

I know many folks have moved on to FB, but while I enjoy FB a lot myself, I have never seen it as having the potential to reach as many divers, or to serve as a useful search base for dive related questions.

 

[danvolker]

This is the third post in this thread you've made about how moderation is unfair. As I said above, not all "problem children" are dealt with equally. I don't want to air the dirty laundry publicly but since you keep bringing it up, I feel a response is justified.

Pete is right. He is still the most moderated member on Scubaboard. But you don't see him moaning about moderators on the open forums. Why? Because he understands *why* he was moderated and appreciates that it was necessary.

In your case, you feel it is unfair that we don't allow you to stalk and bicker with a particular user and you blame moderators for that. This is Scubaboard, not the Dan Volker board. Moderators understand that you feel "entitled" because of who you are and what you've done, but our job is to protect the interests of the *other* 200,000 users, not to give you special treatment.

R..

R,
I appreciate the response....And I really hope you are just needling when you say I act like I think I should have special privileges --I really don't. What I would like is a warning if a moderator is troubled by a post of mine, and the other thing I kind of expect, is that when most members here get in an arguement with another poster, as long as they don't name call and bite, they are allowed to "discuss"....In my case, as in the thread with Bob, I was actually trying to be much nicer to Bob --he was being nasty to me, and I was the one that got sanctioned--even though I came up with a great solution that would end the arguement/discussion to everyone's satisfaction...
I feel this is me getting singled out, because Howard and a few other moderators were offended in the Chatteron thread....prior to that, I felt the moderation was always fair, and I had been doing a huge amount of posting in the years prior to this.....so I am saying there is a huge difference AFTER the Chatterton Thread, and I think this is a real bias that goes far beyond protecting the interests of the other 200,000 divers.

The real point, is that if I can be singled out and
dog-piled by Moderators, then I expect that this is happening to other posters as well...and this "IS" the ideal thread to discuss a problem, and to offer a solution or two....which I have actually already done

And as you pointed out, I have "mentioned" un-fair moderation several times now in this thread, and I will try NOT to bring this up again, unless you or Pete or some other moderator wants me to ( by their response).

Thanks for Listening!!!!!
And say HI to my buddy Howard

 

[gypsyjim]

Many do.








---------- Post added March 10th, 2014 at 07:32 PM ----------

But you are right about a majority being male. That reflects the world of diving I think.

 

[Diver0001]

R,
I appreciate the response....And I really hope you are just needling when you say I act like I think I should have special privileges --I really don't. What I would like is a warning if a moderator is troubled by a post of mine, and the other thing I kind of expect, is that when most members here get in an arguement with another poster, as long as they don't name call and bite, they are allowed to "discuss"....In my case, as in the thread with Bob, I was actually trying to be much nicer to Bob --he was being nasty to me, and I was the one that got sanctioned--even though I came up with a great solution that would end the arguement/discussion to everyone's satisfaction...
I feel this is me getting singled out, because Howard and a few other moderators were offended in the Chatteron thread....prior to that, I felt the moderation was always fair, and I had been doing a huge amount of posting in the years prior to this.....so I am saying there is a huge difference AFTER the Chatterton Thread, and I think this is a real bias that goes far beyond protecting the interests of the other 200,000 divers.

The real point, is that if I can be singled out and
dog-piled by Moderators, then I expect that this is happening to other posters as well...and this "IS" the ideal thread to discuss a problem, and to offer a solution or two....which I have actually already done

And as you pointed out, I have "mentioned" un-fair moderation several times now in this thread, and I will try NOT to bring this up again, unless you or Pete or some other moderator wants me to ( by their response).

Thanks for Listening!!!!!
And say HI to my buddy Howard

Dan, I think we should take this off line so this thread doesn't get derailed.

I can say that I am not personally aware of the Chatterton thread nor do I believe it has anything to do with the manner in which moderators have been dealing with you.

Are you being "singled out"? Yes. But this is happening as a direct result of your behaviour, not because moderators don't like you. In fact, the reason you haven't been banned from Scubaboard entirely is because one of the moderators keeps coming to your defense. We like to do things on consensus and we don't have it in your case.

R..

 

[Keith.M]

Dan, I think we should take this off line so this thread doesn't get derailed.

Too late!

Seriously though, it does apply to the OP.

But Dan I have to say, if you were to get a warning first, then I would say YOU are getting special treatment.

I have had exactly one post removed by moderators. No warning, just removed. My post and the post that I was responding to, gone.

I have also seen you bring up that accident thread many many times. I followed that thread. I have no horse in that race, but I would read your comments when you would come back at Bob, talking about being attacked and I would have to go back and reread Bob's comments.

I never saw it as attacking. You do bring up the fin issue all the time, even in pure speculation.

I think you need to get some thicker skin.

 

[eternaljonah]

1) What attracted you to ScubaBoard in the first place?

I had started diving and wanted to learn as much as possible and my instructor needed sleep. ;-)

2) Are you satisfied that the board addresses your needs adequately? And if not what would you change, if you could to make it do so

I live in india, and i find that there is a very strong presence of an western view of whats right, possible.

3) Why do you think other folks who have joined, have not stayed around?

got bored of hearing the same thing over and over.

4) Do you have ideas on what the board either did not provide well, or what might have done to scare them away, without becoming participating members?

it would be great if there was a way for the board to get more international. get divers from Asia more interested

5) Do you have ideas or suggestions of new ways to both attract and keep new members, new divers involved, and satisfied with this forum?

maybe there could be a page with suggestions of what are interesting topic according to what you normally read. maybe there should be a limit to how often you can post long ramblings. would be great if there was more place to discuss to so called resort diving and working in un western conditions.

 

[soccerrefjason]

This question is directed at all members, new and old. It is actually a multiple part question, and is designed to get us all thinking about what ScubaBoard is, or could be for someone just discovering us today or tomorrow.

Two weeks ago on Utila Colleen and I were part of 4 couples with no previous contact who were diving on the same boat for a week, so we had lots of time to chat. It turned out that 5 (6 including myself) of the 9 divers including the DM, were all members of ScubaBoard at one time or another, but I was the only actively participating SM user.

A subsequent conversation with a friend who is also a moderator, has had me thinking about this, so here are my questions:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) What attracted you to ScubaBoard in the first place?

2) Are you satisfied that the board addresses your needs adequately? And if not what would you change, if you could to make it do so

3) Why do you think other folks who have joined, have not stayed around?

4) Do you have ideas on what the board either did not provide well, or what might have done to scare them away, without becoming participating members?

5) Do you have ideas or suggestions of new ways to both attract and keep new members, new divers involved, and satisfied with this forum?
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.

Being a new member I find this thread concerning. I will answer your questions first then lay my concern out for you.

1. Like so many others I was first attracted to ScubaBoard because i had some questions and after using Google this site came up. I found answers to my question. Then I found answers to other peoples questions, which I find useful. I then found that the discussions have caused me to have even more questions some of which i have found the answers to yet again. Also, like many other users, to me, scuba board is much like a reference book. It is the personal interactions that keep me around. It is like an encyclopedia written by a group of bipolar scuba bums,(term of endearment, not derogatory)(("this is the best! nooo THIS is the best! BCD's are stupid use a wing and plate... cmon bcd's have their place...")) that includes a classified section and a chat room.

It is the personal interaction and the multiple points of view that I think will keep me here. This, however, is due to my personality. Plus there is a chat room!

2. Yes I am satisfied.

3. Being a new member I have no insight as to why others have not stayed around. I believe that your longer standing members might have more of a clue about that.

4. Same answer as above but tailored to this question.

5. I agree with MrChen who suggested making it easier to find dive buddies, and the possibility of local ScubaBoard clubs is a great idea. The logistics of such an undertaking would probably boggle the mind however.



Now, about my concerns. There have been lots of complaints about moderators. This site will not work without them. No forum would. Some divers exist that let their computers dangle beneath them. There are some who can't maintain a constant buoyancy. There are some who can only do one type of kick with their fins. There are some who do everything pretty much right, but they might be real air hogs. there might be some who are so damn perfect and let you know it so often that their way is the only way that nobody wants to dive with them ever. (oh there are also good divers who are modest and just do what they love as best as they can) I cannot imagine pulling from such a diverse population and getting everyone to do something exactly the same way, nor can I imagine putting a hand full of those who are pulled from said population, and having the entire population be happy 100% of the time about everything they do. That being said moderators do what they do, they moderate. It is a job I do not want, but, a position that must be filled all the time. Perhaps, if this is a main complaint for many of the users who are active, scubaboard will allow some of those, who are unhappy with the moderation, to become moderators.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Ive never seen Pete say anything that should remotely need moderation.. say Pete did you p*ss off a mod somewhere along the line and now can't get out from under?

 

[danvolker]

I think a great thread, would be: "The Best of MOD deleted posts, by Net Doc". Sort of like a bloopers reel, and we can have the mods explain WHY they deleted each post!!! What do you guys think? I would read a bunch of these....As I think about it, I can't remember any posts by Pete ever where I could even imagine him having been moderated!!!!

 

[gypsyjim]

I will respond to some of the thoughts, in no particular order.

Both the internet, and scuba diving itself attract a high percentage of folks who do not always "color between the lines", and who are always going to "test the rules" and/or "push the limits" to see how far they can go. It is natural that some folks chafe at limits, and our sport attracts a lot of this type of individual, I believe.

Also, both the net and our sport naturally draw a number of headstrong, "my way or the highway" types. Some preachers,




some,
:gans:.... fftopic:.... ..... ... and ....

and of course the occasional(?)


Throw in personality conflicts, differences of opinion that may be misunderstood in typed communication, and more than an occasional thin skin, and there will be disagreement.

Obviously we need mods, and we need them often, but moderating is always going to be irritating to those who see themselves as having done no wrong, and those who enjoy testing the limits. I would not want the job of moderating, that's for sure.

Thankless most of the time, being a mod, while at other times:

Personally, my disagreement with some of the moderating has revolved around the apparent catering to the demands of a few thin skinned individuals, who seem to deliberately seek ways to be offended by others. Among the membership are those who love to find offense anywhere they can so they can push the Report button.

From my perspective, such offense seeking, thin skinned trouble makers

are a form of troll, and just as much a source of conflict as those they seek to have censured or banned.

How do we balance all these personalities? I haven't a clue,

but dialog like this thread gives us, newbies, mods or long time members all a chance to put ideas on the table.

 

[Diver0001]

I think a great thread, would be: "The Best of MOD deleted posts, by Net Doc". Sort of like a bloopers reel, and we can have the mods explain WHY they deleted each post!!! What do you guys think? I would read a bunch of these....As I think about it, I can't remember any posts by Pete ever where I could even imagine him having been moderated!!!!

That just means we get to him first

As for bloopers... yeah... we've made some good ones. That's why we try to do things on consensus and why there is an email address where those who feel a moderator has acted unfairly can write to object.

As for why a given post is deleted, we do write to the person being moderated and/or leave a modpost in the thread. It doesn't happen that often that people don't understand why they ahve been moderated.

It *does* however, often happen that they have been moderated and do not agree with it. This often leads to them saying, "why" in the same way that a felon says "why" when judgement is passed. In the same way that everyone in prison is innocent", those who get moderated often think they should have been able to get away with it.

R..