Suggestion Feedback on keeping ScubaBoard members

[gypsyjim]

This question is directed at all members, new and old. It is actually a multiple part question, and is designed to get us all thinking about what ScubaBoard is, or could be for someone just discovering us today or tomorrow.

Two weeks ago on Utila Colleen and I were part of 4 couples with no previous contact who were diving on the same boat for a week, so we had lots of time to chat. It turned out that 5 (6 including myself) of the 9 divers including the DM, were all members of ScubaBoard at one time or another, but I was the only actively participating SM user.

A subsequent conversation with a friend who is also a moderator, has had me thinking about this, so here are my questions:

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1) What attracted you to ScubaBoard in the first place?

2) Are you satisfied that the board addresses your needs adequately? And if not what would you change, if you could to make it do so

3) Why do you think other folks who have joined, have not stayed around?

4) Do you have ideas on what the board either did not provide well, or what might have done to scare them away, without becoming participating members?

5) Do you have ideas or suggestions of new ways to both attract and keep new members, new divers involved, and satisfied with this forum?
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---------- Post added March 3rd, 2014 at 08:30 AM ----------

I will start by adding my own 2 cents.

I discovered SB while researching a dive trip back in '05, and was not a terribly active member for some time. I did though, find the info I was seeking.

I did soon after that did make some friends on the board, as both DeputyDan and Herman offered advice and invited my family to join their group for a trip to Bonaire.

I also later asked for underwater photography advice, and got a lot of help from such diverse members as ScubaSteve and DandyDon, who were more than willing to help a struggling novice.

I had a few conflicts in some of the threads along the way, especially early on, with some of the more vocal know it alls, but while that slowed me down a bit and kept me quiet, it did not scare me off. I just spent more time lurking till I became more comfortable standing up for my beliefs, and not afraid of the loud mouths. It just took me time to realize by lurking that they were a small minority, and not particularly as well respected universally as they might have thought, which made me feel less the outsider.

(Note) I think a lot of that 'know it all' attitude seems to have disappeared from the boards, or at least become far less of an issue. I heard a lot of feedback from non member divers between '95 and about 2000 that this "slamming of 'stupid questions' " was a big turn off, but I do not sense this same complaint from my more recent contactsd, when discussing SB. Now it seems more like SB is not supplying what divers are seeking, and they are just moving on to other sources of info.

I know many folks have moved on to FB, but while I enjoy FB a lot myself, I have never seen it as having the potential to reach as many divers, or to serve as a useful search base for dive related questions.

 

[violamama]

1) What attracted you to ScubaBoard in the first place?
I'm a bit obsessive and prone to research my interests thoroughly. Scubaboard is free, and contains so much great information- it's a great fit for me.

2) Are you satisfied that the board addresses your needs adequately? And if not what would you change, if you could to make it do so
Haven't run across much, except that I haven't figured out the search feature. Some threads are mentioned in other threads by name, and even searching the exact phrase turns up nothing. Searching in quotes to make it look for an exact string seems not to work. I've been meaning to look at the navigation forum to see if there's a better way. (This is probably operator error.)

3) Why do you think other folks who have joined, have not stayed around?
In other forums where I've been active (homeschooling, music teacher forums, small business ownership, even facebook), everybody's interest waxes and wanes. There are some seasons when a person just doesn't have time to get much from it. Also, diving can be expensive and if you aren't able to dive it may be no fun to read about your friends getting out every day.

4) Do you have ideas on what the board either did not provide well, or what might have done to scare them away, without becoming participating members?
Some people are not internet forum ready: they freak out when people bicker, or take every single post as gospel, or read some dark agenda into everybody's posts. My mom's like that, and she gets offended on behalf of others and then decides it's just not her crowd. There's nothing you can do about that without wrecking the liveliness of the forums.

5) Do you have ideas or suggestions of new ways to both attract and keep new members, new divers involved, and satisfied with this forum?
I'm really surprised at dive pros who don't like SB. It's too bad there isn't a better relationship there. When I started asking a bunch of (friendly) questions on the boat before a dive and my instructor raised an eyebrow, my husband told him I had discovered SB. His exact words were, "Oh, don't read that stuff. It will just freak you out." I was NOT being hysterical, and I was honestly taken aback that he would want his clients to persist in newbie ignorance.

Is there some kind of elite content or in-person meetings/benefits SB could offer that would make the dive pros more positive about it? Again, I haven't explored all the site yet and see you have blog platforms and pro forums, so maybe you've done what you can.

 

[gypsyjim]

A mod notifying a LDS, manufacturer, resort, travel agent, whatever, who may have gotten a bad review, and letting them reply is probably not a terrible thing to do, as long as they do not receive preferential treatment that a member would not also be given.

I was not talking of a dive shop being discussed online, but of such a business seeing the internet in general, and ScubaBoard specifically as a threat to their bottom line, and consciously trying to steer new divers away from SB. I believe that this forum has a lot to offer new divers, but I also can see how educating a business' clients to alternate options in techniques, gear choices, dive destinations, etc could be very threatening to a business that does not have an online presence.

 

[The Chairman]

I teach classes all the time on Social Media and especially at DEMA. Most people who attend are surprised at the number, breadth and ease of the tips we give them to attract divers on ScubaBoard. ScubaBoardians are my best asset in this. You are ten times more positive than negative and a cursory search brings up a lot of good about a lot of dive shops. I teach them how to own problems and turn them into a positive. We have lots of examples of that here as well. Ignorance and assumptions are our biggest enemies in getting the dive shops on board.

 

[drrich2]

I'm really surprised at dive pros who don't like SB.

I believe the majority of OW dive training today, at least in the U.S., can be summed up as 'PADI + SSI,' and I also suspect a substantial portion of that is taught to fairly minimum standards.

Time on ScubaBoard shows that many here believe such as the scuba version of 'puppy mills,' churning out scads of poorly trained divers who are a potential hazard to themselves, others and the reefs and will likely scare themselves out of the sport in short order.

At least that's the impression I get, and if I get it, I'm guessing some other people get it, too.

ScubaBoard reminds us that large online vendors often give better prices than the LDS, and we've got a classifieds section where used gear could further cut into new sales. And ScubaBoard makes people aware of brands and models of product the LDS does not carry. And of organized dive trip options not handled by the LDS.

Some teachers prefer gullible 'shut up and believe what I tell you' students over elsewhere-informed curious types who ask a broader range of questions.

A lot of the dive shops & instructors aren't going to like a site dissing their teaching style and indirectly promoting their competitors.

Richard.

 

[violamama]

ScubaBoard reminds us that large online vendors often give better prices than the LDS, and we've got a classifieds section where used gear could further cut into new sales. And ScubaBoard makes people aware of brands and models of product the LDS does not carry. And of organized dive trip options not handled by the LDS.

.....

Some teachers prefer gullible 'shut up and believe what I tell you' students over elsewhere-informed curious types who ask a broader range of questions.

Richard.

I guess it's kind of an old-school industry in that way, then. "The internet is killing us" is a complaint in many fields, and the smart companies definitely have a forward-looking attitude about it. In our family's other hobbies (music stuff, rc helicopter stuff) the smartest shops are right there inventing little gew-gaws and selling all the big names. The business model has changed with the internet, and being mad about it is not a very effective plan. Seems scubaboard absorbs some of that anger without necessarily doing anything different than the rest of the internet.

I have definitely gotten the anti-curious vibe from 3 of the 6 LDS I have visited here. They tended to be the smallest shops with the fewest brands offered, and them blowing me off or badmouthing other brands (without specific reasons) just felt like desperation to me. Again, they may aim their discontent at scubaboard but many consumers in our generation are not going to just buy stuff without at least googling up a few reviews or expert blog posts.

Sorry to comment more than once, but I find the way consumers & shop owners think fascinating.

 

[drrich2]

I suspect many LDS are fairly low inventory, low volume businesses with a modest local customer base and considerable competition (online, and some local). I expect many shops are unable to justify making the large volume purchases needed to get really good wholesale prices on gear, to enable low prices, either retail or online. And to do so with a large number of brands isn't practical.

In other words, a LDS might read over ScubaBoard, get all pumped up and say 'Hey, I'm gonna be like ScubaToys! I'm gonna do online sales, and carry Atomic Aquatics, ScubaPro, AquaLung, Suunto, HOG/EDGE, and BP/W & side-mount setups (Hollis and Dive-Rite), and I'm going to have a great, informative website, and in 8 years I'll be up there with LeisurePro and Scuba.com...

All of which sounds good, but I'm thinking it would be a long, very hard road to get there, clawing your way there tooth and nail, and then your odds may not be great.

On the forum, I've seen ScubaToys' success mentioned as an example of how embracing online sales can lead to growth and success. And some years back, the market might've been ripe for that. But nowadays, the online sales market is pretty crowded. Quite a number of reputable vendors with good selection and low prices, product in stock & ready to ship now.

How much room for Johnny-come-lately types is there?

Richard.

 

[The Chairman]

Rich,

It's all about relationships. Johnny come-latelys actually have a chance if they do a Tom Sawyer and get their customers to paint their fence. It's one of my main points to dive shops: encourage your clients to get on ScubaBoard and post about their experiences. Ask, beg and maybe even bribe them to get online and talk about you. The more that is said about a shop online, the more people are going to read about you, perchance to buy. When they do talk about you, make sure you pop in behind them with a big "Aw shucks! You say such the nicest things? Thank you so much!" response. Sure, it's great to answer questions, but turn your "I've got to make this sale" drive off when you do. People don't want to be sold, they want to be befriended. Become their friend and watch the sales grow.

We often work with user/pros to help them to make a go here on ScubaBoard. Part of the magic of ScubaBoard is the ability of the average diver to be able to interact with the Scuba Industry head to head. It's important that we intercede with the overly aggressive types and help them to understand how to interact with the community. It takes patience, an understanding of what they are trying to accomplish and the whole mod team trying to gently teach them how to accomplish their goals. Let's face it, selling face to face is a lot different than selling PC to PC. The rules are different and this is an open invitation to any shop wanting to understand how to navigate ScubaBoard to contact me. No charge. No obligations. Just a lot of insight.

 

[Rhone Man]

1) What attracted you to ScubaBoard in the first place?
It was nice to have "real" discussions where people gave "real" answers to difficult questions. I could use a litany of examples, but it was a massively refreshing change from the saccharin and sanitised responses I was used to. When PADI sent me an e-mail asking me about setting up an online discussion board I said "Don't bother. You will never allow the freedom of discussion that such boards need to flourish."

2) Are you satisfied that the board addresses your needs adequately? And if not what would you change, if you could to make it do so
SB is like a good marriage. Pisses you off from time to time, but in a way that keeps you honest and keeps you coming back.

3) Why do you think other folks who have joined, have not stayed around?
Scuba diving is a transient hobby for most. Why should talking about scuba diving be any different?

4) Do you have ideas on what the board either did not provide well, or what might have done to scare them away, without becoming participating members?
We all have our beefs from time to time, but overall the board keeps to a pretty good central path. A lot of the newbies who got "scared off" came looking for fights and got them. I am not so sure that they were scared off so much as had a good fight and left satisfied.

5) Do you have ideas or suggestions of new ways to both attract and keep new members, new divers involved, and satisfied with this forum?
Bring back the HCT.

 

[koozemani]

I found SB by accident while researching gear. I think it's a great resource and often recommend it to others. I think it's human nature to see something shiny, play with it for a while, and then move off to the next shiny thing. People will come and people will go, but it takes dedication to be as active as some posters are. I don't think anything needs to be changed, just hold the course.

 

[gypsyjim]

Rich,

It's all about relationships. Johnny come-latelys actually have a chance if they do a Tom Sawyer and get their customers to paint their fence. It's one of my main points to dive shops: encourage your clients to get on ScubaBoard and post about their experiences. Ask, beg and maybe even bribe them to get online and talk about you. The more that is said about a shop online, the more people are going to read about you, perchance to buy. When they do talk about you, make sure you pop in behind them with a big "Aw shucks! You say such the nicest things? Thank you so much!" response. Sure, it's great to answer questions, but turn your "I've got to make this sale" drive off when you do. People don't want to be sold, they want to be befriended. Become their friend and watch the sales grow.

We often work with user/pros to help them to make a go here on ScubaBoard. Part of the magic of ScubaBoard is the ability of the average diver to be able to interact with the Scuba Industry head to head. It's important that we intercede with the overly aggressive types and help them to understand how to interact with the community. It takes patience, an understanding of what they are trying to accomplish and the whole mod team trying to gently teach them how to accomplish their goals. Let's face it, selling face to face is a lot different than selling PC to PC. The rules are different and this is an open invitation to any shop wanting to understand how to navigate ScubaBoard to contact me. No charge. No obligations. Just a lot of insight.

While my intent in asking the questions was not to discuss how some of the LDS's have a strong antipathy toward anything internet, and to SB specifically, I do believe that you hit it on the head Pete.

A dive shop that creates an online presence, encourages their new divers to join and participate in SB, and who actively participates in SB themselves regularly can have a big advantage over those who shun the net and/or put the board down. A shop can actually become a local go-to for regional SB members if they join and stay on top of the discussions.

Those sales "lost to the internet" are going to happen, whether or not the shop is online, that is just how the world works today, but those losses can be more than made up by becoming known online as a local personality and someone who you can talk to face to face too. The shop will simply have more reach if they participate online, than if they sit back and just gripe about how the net has hurt them.

Divers entering the sport today are coming from a much different world than many of us, and often those who own and operate dive shops experienced. Researching, shopping, chatting over the internet is simply how young people do things in today's world, so whether a shop wants to see it or not, they need to understand these new customers, and find a way to communicate with them if they wish to survive, or even to prosper.


An advertisement in the local yellow pages may still bring in a new customer from time to time, but a presence on FB, and an active participation on SB will boost your online presence when those potential new customers start thinking "scuba" and doing even just a bit of online searching. Today, a new customer is very, very likely to do that online research as soon as they start thinking "scuba diving", and quite likely to never once open the yellow pages