Fear of uncontrolled ascent

[boulderjohn]

I see free-ascent theory and training is still a contentious subject. I was taught to 'pant' on ascent to prevent small airway closure, and possible lung over-expansion and injury. 'Blow-and-go' was not the favored method.

I am not sure what you are referencing here, but I will point out that there is no need to do anything unusual in your breathing during a normal ascent. As long as you are breathing, your airway is open, and you are safe.

---------- Post Merged at 10:28 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:10 AM ----------

She's more likely to stay down with more weight. Thus the chance of it happening initially is smaller.What part of this in my post didn't you read?

As I said in my post, I disagree with you as well. If you have enough weight to descend, you have enough weight to stay down (not countng issues with the loss of the weight of the air in the tank throughout the dive.) Adding additional weight just means that you need to put more weight in the BCD to balance it, and that makes you susceptible to unplanned changes in buoyancy.

I am also going to disagree with the advice on using the BCD the way you describe. When I have students in a 12 foot pool, I do not want them using their BCD to control changes in depth. Once they have put the correct amount of air in their BCD's for the weight they are carrying, they have the ability to control their depth completely through lung volume. I demonstrate that myself by going from the bottom of the pool to the top of the pool and then back down again just using my breathing, and I tell than that they should strive to do the same.

When I then take students into the open water, I focus very hard on buoyancy control, and I focus on getting them to use their lungs rather than the BCD, as I described above.

 

[Glenn08]

There are only a couple of causes of an uncontrolled ascent for a beginner diver(other than a wrong button error). The most important thing is to keep your airway open so you don't get a lung overexpansion injury.

During a 'normal' ascent, 'normal' breathing is fine. This comment seemed to refer to a fast ascent.

---------- Post Merged at 12:37 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 12:29 PM ----------

Once they have put the correct amount of air in their BCD's for the weight they are carrying, they have the ability to control their depth completely through lung volume. I demonstrate that myself by going from the bottom of the pool to the top of the pool and then back down again just using my breathing, and I tell than that they should strive to do the same.

When I then take students into the open water, I focus very hard on buoyancy control, and I focus on getting them to use their lungs rather than the BCD, as I described above.

That sounds similar to skip-breathing. From my training, 2 psi differential is sufficient to cause a lung over-expansion injury. That is about 4 feet of depth. To be overly dramatic, take a deep breath in 4 feet of water, stand up, and die. And I think this has wandered a long way off-topic from the original post.

 

[diversteve]

I am also going to disagree with the advice on using the BCD the way you describe. When I have students in a 12 foot pool, I do not want them using their BCD to control changes in depth. Once they have put the correct amount of air in their BCD's for the weight they are carrying, they have the ability to control their depth completely through lung volume. I demonstrate that myself by going from the bottom of the pool to the top of the pool and then back down again just using my breathing, and I tell than that they should strive to do the same.

Nowhere did I say anything different^.

Quoting myself from my previous post:

After you've dove for a while and have your weight dialed in you'll find that at depth you'll likely vent all the air out of your BC and use only your breathing to regulate your trim.

Your assumption was that I'm suggesting that the diver use their BC to ascend. I did not say that, just what to do when it starts to happen.

Just remember to vent on ascent since even the smallest amount of air in the BC will expand as you go up. Should it start to happen, just hold the inflator overhead and press the deflate button - you'll stop in a hurry and can recover.

We both know most newer divers will start an ascent using their bc also. Not that it's correct.

 

[danvolker]

My daughter and I just completed the confined portion of PADI OW training and we will be heading to Destin FL for our four check out dives over Labor Day weekend. When we were doing the confined dives, there were a few times that I slightly over-inflated my BC and it took several feet to get things back under control, so in the pool, I was back at the surface in no time.

So, as we head to do our dives (in the ocean), I find myself being anxious about what if I (or my daughter) get into an uncontrolled ascent. I'm curious if my fear is rational and I'm also curious if there are techniques (presumably the first thing to do is dump all air in the BCD, right?) to arrest a rapid ascent?

How about handling the dives differently for a while...use dive skins ( no bouyancy exposure protection) and choose weighting that will make you "slightly" negative, meaning just barely sink..almost float.....This would be with all the air sucked out of the BC or wing. Seriously, suck all the air out of it. Use an Al 80 for low bouyancy swing of the tank. Dive in with zero use of the BC, and swim to go up or down.
This accomplishes a couple important objectives:

1. Your weighting is optimal...you are not so heavy that you are foced to use your BC like an elevator, and worry about the run-away elevator issue.
2. You learn to swim up or down, not relying on a BC to do this for you--a use it is not intended for.
3. At the bottom, your bouyancy should be the same as on the surface, given no wetsuit....You should not need a BC to remain nearly neutral. As you go through the tank, plan on being at the 10 foot stop with around 1200 psi, and then at the 10 foot stop, if you are slightly positive, you can easily use for fins to handle this small amount of bouyancy.... ( You do have your BC on, you are just not using it at all...once on the surface, if you want to relax and float, go ahead, inflate it then )

On another dive, with maybe 2 to 4 more pounds negative.. max, spend the whole dive using the BC to make tiny adjustments up and down in lift...getting heavier or lighter. Going from 10 feet, to 20 feet, to 10 feet...to 15 feet...to 20 feet...to 5 feet....get the idea of the tiny amounts of air you use for control.
Hold a depth like 20 feet for several minutes...if this is hard, get near the bottom, and stay 2 feet off the bottom for 5 minutes...try to get the perfect amount of air in the BC, then, use your breathing to further perfect how well you stay exactly 2 feet off the bottom.

When both of these scenarios are easy for you, I doubt you would have any more issues where you have concerns about the uncontrolled ascents

 

[Melicertes]

Hi chickweed,

Congratulations on completing this first part of your course. There has already been some really good advice given here - don't panic, add air in small bursts, anticipate that the air volume in your BCD will expand when you ascend so remember to vent air when you decrease your depth, and always, always, always keep your airway open (and not just while your ascending, during every part of the dive; i.e. just breath and never hold your breath).

I would spend time working on three things in particular when you have time:

First, get your weight placement and weight amount as close to perfect as you can. You want to make sure that the weight you carry is just enough to counter the buoyancy of your body and rest of your gear on a nearly empty cylinder at the end of a dive so you can remain neutral at 15 ft; i.e. a safety stop depth.

Second, practice hovering in the pool. Ask a DM or instructor to help you and spend some time in a pool before your open water dives. Ask an experienced buddy after you are certified and continue practicing this skill (remember the training may have been completed but the learning never stops). Hovering is a great skill to practice because you have to achieve neutral buoyancy and control your breathing.

Last, calm your breathing. You are looking for relatively slow, relatively deep diaphragm breathing. Think about the hypnotist telling the guy in the chair to slowly inhale and slowly exhale - that's the kind of pace you are looking for. Learn the difference between diaphragm breathing and chest breathing - try to draw the air towards your navel and you will notice that with diaphragm breathing your chest doesn't move all that much. It is a better way to breathe and conserve your air and a much more controlled exercise than just simply sucking in air into your lungs which will make your depth control more volatile. Just relax and breathe slowly.

As a side note, if you think your fear/concern needs some working on, I suggest that you learn a little about the fear and panic states of your brain by viewing the videos and reading the short article on controlling fear and panic here: Navy Seals Training to Quiet the Amygdala and Control the Fear Response | 3BrainMarketing
I know these guys look like they're being drowned but they are being taught to control their brain's panic and fear responses. Please don't try to reenact anything you see them do in the videos but use the article's 4 step advice on controlling your brain's fear and panic responses. The basics will be the same for you as it will be in the extreme situations these guys train in. Diving, besides being a physical activity, also has a mental aspect that every diver has to learn to control and manipulate to some greater or lesser degree.

Do some searching here on the board for discussions for keywords like buoyancy control, weight amount and and I am sure you will find a wealth of information. Then practice, practice, practice, and stay in good physical shape... all responsible divers constantly do.

 

[boulderjohn]

That sounds similar to skip-breathing. From my training, 2 psi differential is sufficient to cause a lung over-expansion injury. That is about 4 feet of depth. To be overly dramatic, take a deep breath in 4 feet of water, stand up, and die. And I think this has wandered a long way off-topic from the original post.

No, it is not similar to skip breathing. Perhaps my explanation was not clear. I do not mean to say that you hold your breath to the surface. You breathe in to initiate an ascent, and then you exhale. Breathe in again to ascend, then exhale. (etc.)

Yes, only 4 feet of water can cause a lung injury if you close your airway. If you are breathing, you are fine. If your lungs are fully expanded, you cannot inhale. Did you do a fin pivot when you were in your basic scuba class. In it, you were taught to inhale to initiate an ascent.

Controlling your depth through breathing is standard scuba practice. It is taught all over the world. Is everyone who teaches this wrong?

---------- Post Merged at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:01 AM ----------

Nowhere did I say anything different.
Your assumption was that I'm suggesting that the diver use their BC to ascend. I did not say that, just what to do when it starts to happen.


We both know most newer divers will start an ascent using their bc also. Not that it's correct.

I am curious as to why you used the quote feature to put my identification on the first of the three quotes to which you responded but did not use that feature on the other two, leading someone to assume that all three quotes came from me when in fact you were disagreeing with someone else.

 

[Glenn08]

I am new to Scubaboard, so I am probably not using the quote feature correctly.

 

[TSandM]

I empathize with your worry. I had a lot of buoyancy control trouble when I was a new diver, and eventually I got so worried about ascents that I could feel the dread start to build as the dive went on. You know what happens when you feel that way? You change your breathing -- you tend to hold your lungs much fuller and take tiny, rapid breaths . . . and in effect, you have filled your "internal BC", and you start to float up.

The fix for me was to learn to relax and keep my breathing steady. If you are neutral, and you don't change anything, you will stay neutral -- you have to change the air, in your lungs or BC, or add a force like kicking or waving your hands, to change buoyancy. Many people teach students to do their ascents negative, and swim up; I don't like that, because if you forget to kick (or don't kick hard enough) you will sink. Neutral ascents are a bit more challenging, but force you to learn breath control, which is one of the central skills of buoyancy management.

People are right to tell you that buoyancy is hardest in the pool . . . but at the end of every dive, you have to pass through pool depths, so dismissing the need to learn control there is the wrong approach. You DO need to learn to do it, and you can practice in a pool, and you WILL practice on every dive. The good news is that, if you make a mistake in deeper water, you have more time to correct it.

 

[jtoc]

There's a lot of terrific advice in this thread. One thing I'd like to add is that if you're in water without good visual references, you'll need to check your depth often. On my very first open water dive, visibility was virtually nil and I started ascending without noticing. I thought "gosh, the water is suddenly a lot warmer", and then found my depth gauge, checked, and saw that I had risen from 20 feet to 10.

Since then, I pretty much have my BC controls in my left hand and my depth gauge in my right constantly until I'm comfortably able to control my depth with my breathing.

And +1 to those who said to weight yourself correctly. Fine adjustments seem MUCH much MUCH easier to me when I'm not overweighted.

 

[tdtaylor]

I agree with most everything that has been recommended, with the emphasis on practice, practice, practice. And as TSandM mentioned, it may be harder at shallower depths, but you'll have to remain at depth during your SS. With that said, I would highly recommend you practice at shallower depths until you feel comfortable, then proceed with greater depths as you gain skill. If you continue to have issues, which is common, consider taking a course dedicated to perfect buoyancy (don't know PADI's equivalent to SSI). Also search these pages- there are excellent tips and links in many threads on how to improve your buoyancy.