Fatality in the Vandenberg Wreck, Key West Florida

[Rogerdiv]

Where was his gear found? was it entangled to the point He could not free it. Was it a weight integrated system and he removed it and could not maintain neutral buoyancy. Do divers use redundant systems to dive this wreck? Too many unknowns to give a rational answer for me...

 

[Safety_First]

All I can say is that I wish I could have been on that dive.

Miss ya bud.

 

[Steve_C]

@yle - Seriously, this is not a contingency I would be ready for, as my buddy (my husband) and I would always defer to one another. .

Kimela: not all similar dives are the same. I have had care free dives to 100 ft, I have had a dark narc at 100 ft, I have had a need to focus at 100 ft. All were at similar sites (NC offshore ledges) We see examples on scuba board where a regular buddy goes into la la land and sometimes just swims off and down. You and your regular buddy should discuss it. You (or he) may need to get the others hazy attention. Somethings get their attention, somethings generate a fight response, somethings get a flight response. Know what works on each other.

 

[Catito]

@yle - I'm thinking along the same lines. What are you supposed to do if your buddy says "nope, I'm not ending the dive"? Seriously, this is not a contingency I would be ready for, as my buddy (my husband) and I would always defer to one another. If you're with an insta-buddy, for instance, and this happens, what do you do? I guess you could signal the dive master (if there's one in the water with you)? What a terrible outcome - the buddy and crew will be second guessing themselves for the rest of their lives. So sad.

If I am with an insta-buddy..and I signal up and the insta-buddy says no...and I am not comfortable with continuing the dive...I would go up. What other choice would I have?

 

[Catito]

Which is why I have no issue with the survivors course of action, or anyone else's for that matter, one can only do what one can do.

As an instructor, and having experience watching divers and heading off their bad decisions, I believe your response might be something other than just let your buddy swim off. And because I mentioned one possible scenario, does not mean that is what I would actually do, as I would have to experience the situation to decide what would work.

The problem with the what ifs for an accident such as this, is one is not there experiencing all the conditions. I try to make it clear in the dive plan that we will stay together as a buddy team. And I know from experience that if things go wrong, I will do something.

Oh yeah, did I tell you I prefer solo.

Ha! Yes but who shakes you when you are narced? If it was my regular buddy I’d shake her and try to drag her up. An insta-buddy who ignores the plan...I would try but not die for.
Bob

 

[Bob DBF]

(from @Catito). Ha! Yes but who shakes you when you are narced? If it was my regular buddy I’d shake her and try to drag her up. An insta-buddy who ignores the plan...I would try but not die for.

First, when replying with a quote, make sure your answer is outside the quote, after the [/QUOTE], so it will be easier to find and read.

When diving solo, I have to shake myself.

You are, of course, assuming that you will notice your buddy is narked. The basic problem with narcosis is that it doesn’t “affect” you like the martini they talk about, it just shaves off IQ points, makes you less aware, and steals your ability to react properly to a problem.

Back in the day, when air was the only recreational gas, I learned to assess and deal with its effects, to the extent one can, as part of my training for deep/deco diving. I’m not immune, but I know when to quit. Basically, I’m like a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.


Bob

 

[Marie13]

There’s a reason I refer to being narced as “mush brain.”

 

[BlueTrin]

@yle - I'm thinking along the same lines. What are you supposed to do if your buddy says "nope, I'm not ending the dive"? Seriously, this is not a contingency I would be ready for, as my buddy (my husband) and I would always defer to one another. If you're with an insta-buddy, for instance, and this happens, what do you do? I guess you could signal the dive master (if there's one in the water with you)? What a terrible outcome - the buddy and crew will be second guessing themselves for the rest of their lives. So sad.

I had missed that post.

I think for all purposes, you should maybe indicate that you really want to abort with something like a double Thumbs up ?

If he does not abort at this point, you can proceed like if you were separated: i.e. do a safe ascent with stops and DSMB if required and/or go back to the ascent point if needed ?

Make sure to mention what happened as soon as possible, not only to blame your buddy but for safety.

 

[Nemrod]

during our pre-dive discussion I always tell my buddy that if either of us thumbs the dive we both end it and that they should not hesitate to do it for whatever reason. I get their agreement or we don't dive together. I don't know if such a discussion would have helped here, but maybe just having said it would have been enough. We will never know though.

w.r.t the buddy who ascended, they needed to and there is nothing wrong with what they did. It was the poor guy who ignored the buddy protocol that was at fault.

I had this agreement with an instabuddy on this very wreck. We no sooner land on the wreck than he dissappears into it. I was not equipped for solo nor for penetration/overhead and had no interest in it. I thought maybe he was going to do a quick look see and 180. Nope, he kept going, I went in after him having been admonished by the charter crew to stay with our buddies or else and of course feeling an obligation! I followed him until he sprinted off down a dark corridor and I said screw it, and 180 out. I had a nice dive, me and my camera, he popped back out thank goodness about time to head up the mooring line. Whatever.

You can have all the agreements you want with unknown people and they are basically as good as nothing.

The nitrogen narcosis rapture of the deep bugger bear, I figure some folks may be a little more prone to it than others, I never really feel anything to speak of, maybe some dullness at most. But my "buddy" here did not have narcosis, he had a case of stupid and stupider is as stupid does and I ain't stupid, so I let him go. I had warned him well in advance that I would not go in.

N

 

[Protondecay123]

I had this agreement with an instabuddy on this very wreck. We no sooner land on the wreck than he dissappears into it. I was not equipped for solo nor for penetration/overhead and had no interest in it. I thought maybe he was going to do a quick look see and 180. Nope, he kept going, I went in after him having been admonished by the charter crew to stay with our buddies or else and of course feeling an obligation! I followed him until he sprinted off down a dark corridor and I said screw it, and 180 out. I had a nice dive, me and my camera, he popped back out thank goodness about time to head up the mooring line. Whatever.

You can have all the agreements you want with unknown people and they are basically as good as nothing.

The nitrogen narcosis rapture of the deep bugger bear, I figure some folks may be a little more prone to it than others, I never really feel anything to speak of, maybe some dullness at most. But my "buddy" here did not have narcosis, he had a case of stupid and stupider is as stupid does and I ain't stupid, so I let him go. I had warned him well in advance that I would not go in.

N

The briefing and dive plan, I have had on the Vandenberg was clearly “No Penetration”. The “bad instabuddy” happens all of the time. And these experiences exemplify why training needs to stress “self reliance “ to a great degree. Not just formal training, but find a LDS with a year round pool and go through the reps, getting adjustments correct, ballast, new gear, recently serviced gear all trialed before you hit the big water. Because at the end of the dive you have to CYOA. The O standing for own. Especially with Bozos like you described.