Family sues over Florida Keys dive death

[ScubaSteve1962]

Here is the part I do not understand, even though I read the original thread in its entirety when it first appeared.

The deceased who is suing had no octo, something you rarely see today. I don't recall a statement as to why she had no octo. I had assumed it was a conscious decision that included a belief in her ability to use the buddy breathing process effectively and safely. I said something to that effect in another tread and was corrected by someone who claimed to have further knowledge. This person claimed she was not an experienced diver and had no buddy breathing skills. If so, this may explain this part of the OP:



If she were a basic OW diver using rented equipment that did not include an octo, then she might have a case.

I didn't read the original thread, but she didn't have the air 2 and just didn't know how to use it either?

 

[Wookie]

It is not called socialism, it is called tort law and has its origins in English common law and has been part of America since before its inception.

Your statements are factually true. However, morally I find it reprehensible that a person participating in a potentially dangerous sport would not think of who they are leaving behind, and that the folks left behind would feel completely at ease hiring someone to go on a fishing expedition just to see if there happens to be any loose change just laying around. For the common person, being sued is an emotionally gut-wrenching event, on par with divorce or loss of a child. It is to our shame that we as a society allow gold diggers to destroy others so cavalierly. The defendants have to live with the fact that they have lost a family member, now they have to go through further turmoil because of poor planning on the part of the plaintiffs relative.

 

[The Chairman]

For the common person, being sued is an emotionally gut-wrenching event, on par with divorce or loss of a child. It is to our shame that we as a society allow gold diggers to destroy others so cavalierly.

This is so true. however, it's good to know that I am a "common person".

 

[Wookie]

This is so true. however, it's good to know that I am a "common person".

You will always be uncommon to me, Pete.

 

[flots am]

Even if buddy breathing is taught today, I doubt that the risk associated with it is discussed.

I teach enough of it to mention that the reason it's not taught is because the OOA diver tended to not give back the regulator once he was breathing again, leaving the donor OOA, without the ability to surface because now there's a useless, semi-panicked lump attached to him.

flots.

---------- Post Merged at 11:59 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:51 AM ----------

The deceased who is suing had no octo, something you rarely see today. I don't recall a statement as to why she had no octo. I had assumed it was a conscious decision that included a belief in her ability to use the buddy breathing process effectively and safely. I said something to that effect in another tread and was corrected by someone who claimed to have further knowledge. This person claimed she was not an experienced diver and had no buddy breathing skills.

I really hate to sound like a broken record, but this is another case where basic OW skills could have prevented two fatalities.

It was a 60' reef, and all the OOA diver needed to do was surface, as taught in OW class. Assuming proper weighting, weight ditching wouldn't even have been necessary.

All the problems with octos (or the lack of them) and buddy breathing could easily have been rendered irrelevant if the diver had simply followed training. And this isn't even awesome "many days of class" training. All the victim would need to remember is "Don't hold your breath" and "There's air on the surface".

flots.

 

[The Chairman]

I really hate to sound like a broken record, but this is another case where basic OW skills could have prevented two fatalities.

It's impossible to teach someone how to handle sheer panic, even in an OW class. The real problem it would appear was in the diver not knowing how to dump their weights or in thinking through the "what next" adequately. People often try new gear for the first time on an OW dive. Heck, I do it all the time, but as Frank points out: I'm uncommon and actually think about what can happen and my subsequent actions before I splash.

 

[flots am]

It's impossible to teach someone how to handle sheer panic, even in an OW class.

While it's impossible to "handle panic" it's not difficult to prevent panic with training, especially with something as easy to fix as "out of air".

The real problem it would appear was in the diver not knowing how to dump their weights or in thinking through the "what next" adequately.

Dumping weights would have been very useful and IMO, there's no excuse for not knowing how to dump your own and your buddies, however the diver should also have been more-or-less neutral, so surfacing would have required nothing more than "swimming up" even without ditching weights.

In my not-so-forgiving opinion, this can be laid at the feet of the diver for being unqualified for the dive and still diving.

They're probably glad I wasn't part of the jury pool.

flots.

 

[The Chairman]

it's not difficult to prevent panic

If only that were true. Hubris, such as this, is panic's best friend. Like a phobia, panic is an unreasonable response to a particular situation. While training may ameliorate the onset of panic, there is no sure fire way to completely prevent it. Everyone has their boiling point. Training, like antifreeze in your car's cooling system, may elevate the boiling point but it's only one tool to prevent that psycho-overheating. You can posture all you want about how your training would do this or that, but in reality it's not based on much.

It's easy to "convict" the victims of negligence since hindsight is almost always 20/20. Was this oversight inexcusable? Clearly and he paid for it dearly with his life and the life of another. I'm not sure you want to be on the jury that hands out death penalties for such a thing. From the number of successful dives he had, his training was clearly adequate. His experience was also more than adequate. The take away is two fold: Don't ASSUME you know how to operate new gear, and don't expect others to bail you out. For the second victim, the take aways are also clear. Don't become the second victim and don't expect others to take the blame when you do.

 

[flots am]

If only that were true. Hubris, such as this, is panic's best friend.

Expecting a certified diver to be able to do an ascent, with or without air is not hubris.

You can posture all you want about how your training would do this or that, but in reality it's not based on much.

I never mentioned my training. However even the shortest class in the world covers "how to surface" and any RSTC compliant class covers an emergency ascent.

flots.

 

[The Chairman]

Expecting a certified diver to be able to do an ascent, with or without air is not hubris.

Almost all do. In fact, with many years and dives behind him, he came up from each and everyone until this last one. Using that one marker, it's obvious to me that this was not a training issue. Assuming that you can completely prevent panic with training is hubris.

However even the shortest class in the world covers "how to surface" and any RSTC compliant class covers an emergency ascent.

Precisely my point. So if the shortest class in the world adequately covers this, then it's impossible to blame training. It's been glibly said that it's impossible to make anything fool proof as fools are so stinking smart! This was a brand new BC that the guy assumed he could operate. The survey shows that he was not up to the job. Learning how to pull a weight belt does not make you competent to operate a weight integrated BC. Learning how to operate one, two or even ten weight integrated BCs does not make you competent to operate them all. Hubris and assumptions run counter to this and they are, in my humble opinion, the real reasons this tragedy occurred.