Failed BCD pressure relief valve

[sabbath999]

if this happened on your cert dives find a new instructor

+1

You did good, however there is NO way you should have been left alone down there.

 

[RAWalker]

I really appreciate all of the comments and feedback. I do understand that I was overweight and understand the importance of buoyancy control.

Keep in mind, this was my second dive.....ever. I had very little control over the amount of weight I used, I left it up to the instructor who knew better than I at the time. Buoyancy control is a skill that must be developed and is now a top priority for me (thanks again ).

Regardless, I was in this situation as is and I have received valuable feedback on how to deal with it in the future, over weighted or not.

I understand about your instructor chasing another student but I find it very disturbing that your instructor would allow you to dive that overweighted. Your weight check should have been done during your confined water training
.
Since I'm local to you I'd be interested to know who was your instructor and what shop they teach out of. I do not want to start any open forum war so if you could PM me I'd appreciate it.

As someone who has continued with diving instruction I have tried a number of local intructors (both with shops and independant instructors) and may have some suggestions for you.
My first suggestion would be to take Peak Performance Buoyancy with a good instructor in either a private or semi private class. This will ready you to make your own checks and select your proper weighting for varying conditions such as using different thickness wetsuits or diving in salt water.

 

[Puffer Fish]

I see a few people have questioned the issue of the instructor.

I'm stuck with only two possibilities here:

1. It did not happen as presented.

2. It did happen, in which case, for the agency's I am familar with, this would be an instructor that should not be teaching.

I would strongly suggest that you notify the instructor's agency with the details of that dive and see what their view of it is.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

As I stated previously, I don't blame the instructor, they were chasing another student who freaked out and was ascending to rapidly. They signalled for the rest of us to surface, but the valve was already stuck open.

OK, I'm a little confused. Here are a few Q's that your answers would really help us be less confused:

1. What agency was this OW class?

2. How much weight did you use in the pool (confined water), on the first dive and were you using all the same equipment in the pool?

3. Was the student who "freaked out" in your confined water training sessions, and if so did this student seem comfortable with all the skills in said confined water training? Same Q with regards to the first OW dive?

4. Were you assigned to buddy teams, and if so did your buddy ever look back after the instructor signaled to ascend?

5. How much air did you have in your tank at the time of the BC failure and how much did you have at the surface?

6. What type of tanks were you using for your confined and both training dives?

7. What are your vital stats; height, weight, age, state of fitness?

8. When you say "they" do you mean it was an instructor team or an instructor and an assistant?

9. When you say you had weight in 6 different pockets, were all these pockets designed to be weight pockets, or were the "front pockets" the non weight designed pockets?

10. Did you have weight in all 6 pockets for confined training and the first OW dive?

 

[mark00020]

Yea, how ludicrous to think that something so complex could be handled that easily. You are right. All new divers are idiots and should never think of such things. Next thing you know, they might actually become comfortable underwater and forget that they are going to die if something happens down there. What good would that do?

Next time McGyver, use a rubber snorkel keeper folded three ways instead of a rock. You might be more believable that way. I am happy you took the time to post your thoughts by the way. I like to see solutions posted that show things can be handled during a dive and all is not lost.

While it is true that experienced divers that are comfortable breaking down and reassembling their gear underwater could do this, you missed my point entirely. My point was that new divers should perform the skills that were taught to them, the way they were taught. It is no comment on intelligence. Just like we are taught to never hold our breath underwater (even though the only danger is holding breath during assent) because if this is re-enforced over and over and becomes habit the one time a diver has to do an emergency bouyant assent they will do it out of habit.

They say in aviation the rules are written in blood, because most of the rules are there because people died first and then they made a rule to avoid that situation, or they died because they broke a rule. The same could be said for the training presented in an open water class, one look at DAN's fatality report will confirm it. Now you may be a hotshot diver and easily be able to fix problems like a broken OPV underwater, but that is you. Not everyone reading this will have that skill level or level head, and while most may get away with it most of the time, eventually someone is going to take off their BC, accidentally drop it and their goes their life support sinking to the bottom.

I wouldn't want that risk on my conscience. THAT is my point. you shouldn't recommend someone break procedure because you have never met that person, they might think they are awesome and they are actually a total bonehead, and on the internet you never know who is going to be reading this stuff.

 

[TGreene]

Just so we're all very clear about the comment that I made in regards to the possibility of jambing the OPV shut with a small rock or whatever, I was not referring to a OPV that has the inflater attached to it yet is still an operable dump valve like many of them do, but rather the remote dump valves.

FWIW: I am a brand new diver and in fact just did my checkout dives this past weekend at Vortex Springs amid the 7" of rain and tornado dodging. I am however a former wilderness guide with several years of experience in resolving "issues" in whatever manner is necessary as they arise, to keep from having to abort trips unless medically necessary. In fact, I discussed this exact scenario and thread with my Instructor and the 2 accompanying DM's while on our way to Florida for the check dives... The DM's had not heard of an underwater solution for this, and the Instructor said it's far easier to wedge a tiny twig in between the slots if need be, and in that he's personally had to do it. Certainly a neoprene snorkel keeper would be a far better solution in retrospect, assuming you have one available, but the concept is the same no matter how you choose to look at it.

Now, while I said that I'm a brand new diver that officially completed my OW on Saturday, I own and operate a business where I have to work for hours at a time under 4' of saltwater while cleaning a client's 1000g reef tank. Rather than wasting time and energy climbing in and out of the tank for every little thing that may go wrong or need a repair to be made, I find it's far easier to just think things through and take corrective measures while I'm already there.

-Tim

 

[Hallmac]

While it is true that experienced divers that are comfortable breaking down and reassembling their gear underwater could do this, you missed my point entirely. My point was that new divers should perform the skills that were taught to them, the way they were taught.

I got your point and understand it well. From your response I also get that you understand training issues as well. The issue as posted by the OP is well beyond basics, he asked a question that indicated more advanced thinking than many gave it credit for, and it has an excellent educational opportunity. This tread also allows us to take a deeper examination of what we learned or teach and what certain obscure items in the training really mean.

New students are taught more than the basic pool skills. In our answer here we often neglect the fact that true teachers instill far greater skills than have to be proven on a check out. Expect the best and you will often find it.

I take great pains in our instruction to instill into new divers that you do not need to go to the surface to solve a problem. Check your air and no decompression time, if you have both available, solve it underwater. We have to learn that rushing to the surface is not the answer. In his post the OP indicated he had done both of those first checks, was not in trouble and looking for extra tools that eluded him at that moment. He was doing what he was taught...Thinking of how to solve the problem without resorting to the last ditch methods we teach for when all else fails. He was aware of them, considered them, and did not feel the need to execute either of the maneuvers. Good for him.

They say in aviation the rules are written in blood, because most of the rules are there because people died first and then they made a rule to avoid that situation, or they died because they broke a rule. The same could be said for the training presented in an open water class, one look at DAN's fatality report will confirm it.

Absolutely true, now we can discuss were they really trained? The answer is no, they paid their money and did the quick basics. They were not trained they bought a card. The "accident" proves time and time again the diver was not ready and or not thinking. There is a difference in teaching scuba tricks, and scuba training.

Now you may be a hotshot diver and easily be able to fix problems like a broken OPV underwater, but that is you. Not everyone reading this will have that skill level or level head, and while most may get away with it most of the time, eventually someone is going to take off their BC, accidentally drop it and their goes their life support sinking to the bottom.

There are Four excellent points in that statement and one question I find interesting. I'll address the question and if necessary, later, I'll clarify the points.

As a diver, trained with the basics what do you do if your equipment sinks to the bottom. Buoyant ascent is all that is left, simple. The fact that you will most likely be ascending from the lack of equipment weight almost makes the decision for you. Weight belt if used would be the only exception. You recommended sticking to what a new diver would know then make a statement that fails to reinforce the fact that it works. As instructors, coaches, or experienced peers that is a failing on our part. The skills are there. They work well. We are failing to train correctly. The failure shows in the thinking of the practitioners.

my point. you shouldn't recommend someone break procedure because you have never met that person, they might think they are awesome and they are actually a total bonehead, and on the internet you never know who is going to be reading this stuff.

I understand your point, and challenge you to consider if a procedure was broken at all? If you consider all that is said and included in the training of even ill equipped scuba coaches, for lack of a more accurate term, then I say the student should have enough skills to remove the equipment, look at it and see if they is something they can do. Equipment removal is not just for fishing line. It is not magic smoke and not a fancy maneuver only completed by the scuba gods. It is part of the training, apparently, not part of most divers thinking.

 

[mark00020]

I totally agree with you, more should be taught in O.W. and I am sure your students are lucky to have you as an instructor. I just don't think skills should be suggested on the internet and not taught in the water by an instructor.

And you're right, no defined procedure was broken in the hypothetical fixing of the OPV. I just know A LOT of people that can barely change a tire let alone tackle an underwater repair. I know an accomplished ducati mechanic that doesn't do any of his own scuba gear maintenance, he has never even pulled the cover off his second stage. That shaped my thinking.

I also applaud him for solving his problem underwater and keeping a clear head (my first post on the subject) but on an open water training dive, WITH a BC inflation problem and a lost buddy, I don't think the student should have stayed under the water. I am fairly sure lost buddy procedure briefed pre-dive in open water training is two turns searching for him, and a direct ascent to the surface if he isn't found.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

....I say the student should have enough skills to remove the equipment, look at it and see if they is something they can do. Equipment removal is not just for fishing line. It is not magic smoke and not a fancy maneuver only completed by the scuba gods. It is part of the training, apparently, not part of most divers thinking.

You are completely wacked if you think this is good advice for a diver who is not even certified yet, to perform solo, after his instructor essentially abandoned him on a certification dive.

 

[TGreene]

You are completely wacked if you think this is good advice for a diver who is not even certified yet, to perform solo, after his instructor essentially abandoned him on a certification dive.

Not all students are created equal. Some will be far more capable and some will be incredibly timid.

An OW student resolved an issue that he encountered, and I (not even that far along yet) brought up a somewhat controversial MacGuyver method to save the dive.

-Tim