Exploration Question: New Cave in Oklahoma?

[Cave Diver]

So my curiosity has suckered me in to a "project."

You all know how it starts. A friend of a friend heard some guy once talk about this place when they were kids that has a cave on it. You get excited and go check it out and find out it's nothing more than an old armadillo burrow.

Someone recently told me about a relative that owns some property in S.E. Oklahoma. Apparently the property has a couple of springs on it. There are one or two areas where water flows out of small holes in the ground, pools, and runs off a short distance before soaking back into the ground.

These are not large springs. It's been described to me as about a half dozen small "gysers," approximately 3-4" across, clustered in an area about the size of a kiddie wading pool.

The property is located in the same part of the state as Robber's Cave which is a formation in sandstone hills, so it makes me wonder about the possibilities of underground systems.

There is supposed to be a small creek that runs through the property, but I don't know if this bears any relevance. Indications are that it is not close to the springs or formed by their runoff.

I'm unable to make a trip for firsthand inspection at this point and honestly, I'm not even sure what I should be looking for, if anything. Since I can't see it myself, I thought I'd at least do a little research. So my questions are these:

Does anyone have an idea if this area is conducive to the possibility of underground caves/springs?

Is there any known diveable spots in that area that this could be part of?

Assuming that blasting/digging is not an option, what methods would be used to explore for entrances to any underground system?

What resources might be available to give some insight into this possibility?

All the information that I currently have has already been disclosed. I'm just trying to get some opinions on whether this might even be a viable lead, before I spend a bunch of time researching it. Thoughts and opinions are welcome, but I don't have anything else I can add at this point.

 

[Crazyduck]

Does anyone have an idea if this area is conducive to the possibility of underground caves/springs?
To my understanding there are Gypsum caves in the area of Oklahoma. This material is even more porous than limestone. There is a questions about the tensile strength of the material. Please do some research here.

Is there any known diveable spots in that area that this could be part of?
Yes, there are diveable caves but unfortunately they are under word of mouth. I am not allowed to say more than that because I am not in the group. Please research through your local NSS grotto. I am sure it will come up there. These are probably dry cave that moves into a wet spring/cave environment. I have seen few to none springs that directly surface like in Florida.

Assuming that blasting/digging is not an option, what methods would be used to explore for entrances to any underground system?
I am not full cave some my comments are my own. Digging and clearing by moving gravel is usually and acceptable practice as many (less traveled) Florida caves have shovels left to move sand and gravel out of the entrance. However, many Texas sites might be described as swiss cheese diving for there small tunnels and caverns. Also some streams have been contaminated and that information is being released by national parks or state parks. This could be from any number of problems...

What resources might be available to give some insight into this possibility?
Again please check through the NSS Grottos.

As some research methods please search using hydrology reports via the state, also topographical maps (Google maps) make great resources for possible resurgence sites. Also you can get varying results depending on the stress on the aquifer, substrata it is moving in and exit points. I have seen a few sites that the exiting water was moving through sand (like west Texas.) Secondary points that report stream activity is kayakers so that might be another point as they cover a lot of stream and surface water area. Finally, coffee table books of Texas and Ranch real estate magazines provide potential sites by the images. I was pleasently surprised by a few images I have seen through such publciations.

Then again this coming from the guy that stares at most bodies of water he travels by looking for potential springs.
Plus, I have a similar project- a friend told me about a area he used to swim as a kid that the water was deep and always cold. (Call me a sucker!)

Happy hunting...
Andrew

 

[canadiancavedigger]

If there is karst there will be springs-whether they are human size always depends on local geology-age of the karst etc etc.

Crazyduck gave you some great data points-contact the local grotto-I am sure there will be people who know about springs/may also dig caves (less dig underwater but there are groups around who do) This is NOT something you just start doing though(which I am sure you realize) A lot of mentoring and working on digs is required to learn the techniques and safety factors (And local laws/land status allowing/preventing it)I am not referring to simple digging loose debris with a shovel-although there are hazard to that as well.

BTW if you do hook up with a local grotto-do not expect to be given locations right away(some groups will but the majority will not-they try to feel people out to see if they care about caves and will be discreet --a certain level of this can be healthy for the caves-a militant level..not so much.With you being a cave diver-the data will probably be more forthcoming-especially if they have leads they want dove.

There is a cave exploration etiquette _ I will leave that to a grotto to explain if it is a factor ( if you do not already know it-then again- no worries)

Our karst is buried by glacial debris in many cases so we need to dig entrances (above and below water) but we still find many.Some are too young or the geology is not optimum so they end up 6" high and 10' wide-but we get some that are diveable.It all depends on the local geology and water patterns.

Locally I find a LOT from topos-IE follow streams that suddenly stop at a hill etc//or just suddenly start and no feed by a water body is obvious

I find a lot by having the karst map and combining air photos and topos to get the complete mindset of the area....no matter what---walking and walking more again - will have to happen unless a local knows about a spring


Good luck and hopefully if you do pursue this-you find it satisfying.

I have spent a year searching one spot and it was TOTALLY worth the virgin cave mapped from it..both from the experience and identifying karst to perhaps preserve/protect.Virgin cave can be insanely addicting BTW...be warned

If you do find features -please try to survey on the way out if you are able (I know little of what you know-if you know all this then -no worries) Cave surveys create an accurate historical record of the cave and exploration while making important cave data available to other groups that might be able to protect the karst or learn from the geology/biodiversity etc.In the end I fully believe a survey legitimizes a find in a really positive way-plus it allows the surveyors a extremely intimate understanding and connection with the entire cave..


Cave safe

 

[Cave Diver]

Thanks for the information guys. I did start by looking up any NSS groups in the area. I found some chapters in the state, but it doesn't seem as if they have a local chapter in the immediate area.

I'm trying to get more info from the landowner to see if its even worth my going to have a look at. As of yet, I only have a vague second hand description so I don't want to get too excited over it.

 

[rjack321]

Thanks for the information guys. I did start by looking up any NSS groups in the area. I found some chapters in the state, but it doesn't seem as if they have a local chapter in the immediate area.

I'm trying to get more info from the landowner to see if its even worth my going to have a look at. As of yet, I only have a vague second hand description so I don't want to get too excited over it.

Do you know the address + county? At least in this state I can access aerial photos via my local tax assessors office (online).

Might give you more hints about size and water volumes.