Excellent interview of JJ (president, GUE)

[WreckWriter]

comes from newbies who really know little about the whole concept. Their egos get blown up and they act like jerks. The people who designed and teach the system don't act that way.

No, I'm not GUE trained but I do know many of the people involved, including a bunch of GUE instructors and several at the highest levels.

Tom

 

[MikeFerrara]

Divers who can't hover, frog kick, go backwards, ascend/descend or communicate with their team like to think that others can't either, especially if they found out in a DIRF. With some a little knowlege can be dangerous.

 

[Lost Yooper]

The attitude that everyone talks about really starts with the horses mouth himself, George Irvine. On top of that, he knows it and doesn't care. Regardless of his attitude, the message tends to be clear enough and mirrors the GUE guys (most of the time).

The overall attitude of DIR followers has actually gotten a LOT better over the years. Take a look at the old Tech Diver archives. What we see here on Scuba Board, Rodales, and Diver Link doesn't even rate on the same scale. Nowadays, people can debate the issue in a relatively civil tone and come away shaking hands. It has come a long ways from when I first learned of it.

Mike

 

[Lost Yooper]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
Divers who can't hover, frog kick, go backwards, ascend/descend or communicate with their team like to think that others can't either, especially if they found out in a DIRF. With some a little knowlege can be dangerous.

You are vastly underestimating that course, Mike. I have talked with full bore cave diving instructors that fared about as well as OW students with 100 dives. Attitudes of those going in are greatly different than when they leave, particularly with the experienced divers.

Mike

Edit: I seem to recall a thread many months ago where UP was shamelessly laughing at me when I told him I would be taking DIRF. Silly guy .

 

[MikeFerrara]

I don't question the quality of the course. Although, I would like to know what cave instructor had trouble with it. My point was that some can't just learn and enjoy, they must use their new found knowlege to put others down.

Personally, after 43 years of doing lots of things, diving only being one, I have found that it makes sense to read more than one book on the same subject. I would learn things in a DIRF. I would learn more by taking it twice with different instructors. I learn by being critiqued by the divers I dive with all the time. I learn by critiqing my own performance and so on and so on.

We can all be benifit from anothers educated eye. The more educated the eye the better.

But...just because we get smarter doesn't mean others got dumber.

 

[Lost Yooper]

I totally agree. Personally, I'll dive with just about anyone if they're willing to come up this way. Bring your poodle jackets, snorkels, and pony's, and I'll show ya all the good recreational wrecks. I'll bring the "refreshments" too !



Mike

 

[MikeFerrara]

I don't have a poodle jacket but will you still provide the refreshments?

BTW, a short story. None of our group is
GUE trained but we work hard on skill development and team skills. We believe that flaws in basic skill make everything more difficult and maybe worse. We debrief every dive so as to recognize the good as well as the bad. Yesterday I was on my way into Roubidoux spring with another diver when my primary light flickered and went out. The moment my light went dark and in less time than it takes to flick on a backup (only a moment) my buddy , who was leading, spun and was nose to nose with me providing light and prepared to provide anything else I might need. The point , incase it was lost in that verbose attempt at a sentance is that he was aware enough to notice the instant my light wasn't behind him. This is made possible by the close proximaty and the way we handle and communicate with our lights. It is hard to signal from behind with a backup light and another diver may not have noticed causing a temporary breakdown in communications. There was no silt, no confusion, no stress just an untimely end to an otherwise good dive. IMO, Most divers will never experience diving in a team that's this tight even after a DIRF.

OK having a $1000 light go out might be a little stressful.

 

[landlocked]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
I have found that it makes sense to read more than one book on the same subject.

I make it a point to read only one book on any given subject. Then I know all the answers.

 

[WreckWriter]

Lost Yooper once bubbled...
The attitude that everyone talks about really starts with the horses mouth himself, George Irvine. On top of that, he knows it and doesn't care. Regardless of his attitude, the message tends to be clear enough and mirrors the GUE guys (most of the time).

Mike, I have to sorta disagree with you here, the first part of your point anyway.

George is local to me, I know him, have coresponded with him many times, sat down and talked to him, and dived with him.

Yes, he comes off poorly sometimes on Internet mailing lists. In person he is not that way at all. He's very helpful and willing to take time to explain what he feels is the proper way to do things, including the reasons why. He doesn't have much patience for idiots though and most of the times he is seen as being a jerk he is speaking of, or to, those with whom he has already spent a great deal of time trying it the other way. He believes in dive safety and safer diving is his primary goal. I think too many body recoveries does that to you. I hope someday you'll get the chance to spend time with him and see this for yourself.

I feel that most people know this about George and even expect it of him. I still feel the real culprits are new DIR divers trying to immitate George, not George himself. His achievements must go in the win column.

Yes, his message is clear, sometimes extremely so

Sure wish I could get up there and do some of those Lakes wrecks with you.

Tom

 

[Lost Yooper]

Shoot, Tom, I like George! I've been talking with him via internet for at least five years. He's always been very forthcoming and helpful to me. If I get the chance to thank him personally, I'll go out of my way to do so. He has done more to enhance my enjoyment underwater than any person I have ever met.

I guess I kinda phrased that wrong when I wrote it. For a long time, George was the loudest advocate of DIR out there. After all, he coined it all. I think his his initial rants drove a lot of people away. It wasn't until GUE came around with their approach and gained popularity that things started to change. I also think when DIR began seaping into the less combative recreational diving world, that we saw people using more *soothing* approaches. It is bound to get better and better as more people start ignoring the attitude of the few and hearing the message of the majority.

Let's hope so.

Mike