Ever Examine Why?

[brutus_scuba]

So in scuba and especially on this board many times the answer to a question is something like this. "Think about it logically and as long as you have good reason for (insert thing the diver is doing here) and it doesn't present any danger than that's how you should dive. Whatever makes you safer in the water"

So here is a question I present to all those of you who will take the procedures you were taught and adapt to them without questioning their practicality. Why is the octo on the right side in so many agencies, and schools of thought?

I question the decision to have a short octo on the right side. It makes sense to me when diving with a long hose and bungied alternate, but in the case of a short hose octo it makes no sense at all. Here's my reasoning. Short hoses are used in Open Water, and once a diver is on the octo you are going to make your accent the dive is over. The diver with air on his back should physically grab hold of the diver without air. (Padi teaches the locking arm thing, but in reality I would argue that the diver with air should just grap the shoulder strap on the BCD on the OOG diver.) If the diver with gas takes control of the situation like this, and begins his accent it's only reasonable to believe the accent is going to be in the vertical position (no reason to worry about trim at this point, it's kind of out the window.)

In this case when an octo is run from the right side the air hose has to cross the diver, if the octo came from the left side the hose would be routed in the most direct manner from first stage to the OOG divers mouth with minimal hose interference.

Additionally it seems to me as if though it would be an advantage to have only you're primary regulator routed on your right side. This way if the regulator comes out of your mouth you do your lean and sweep and there is only one simple hose over there you could possibly grasp at. If you did a sweep and didnt' find the hose, when you reach back to the first stage the only hose routed off the right side would be your regulator and if both those options fail your octo would still be firmly attached to an octo holder somewhere on your chest.

The only advantage I can see to having your hose on the right side is that it is universal and your buddy will know that in the case of an emergency, however I would suggest that your buddy should review your gear before each diver and be familiar with every aspect, and that should not just be assumed that your octo will be on the right side.

I suggest this as the reasoning for routing a short octo hose over your right shoulder. In the history of scuba we didn't always use an octo and the technical divers picked up on the idea of a redundant second stage before the recreational divers, and for technical divers who may have to follow one another or leave an overhead area or whatever the case maybe the right side made more sense. When recreational divers picked it up, instructors followed the right hand side blindly, and while I can't substantiate this claim I would like to hear why all of you would die before diving with a recreation diver who wears his octo on the left side. The diver I know who suggested this to me is a certified instructor, as well as a great technical diver and cave diver.

 

[seaducer]

Ever tried to breathe out of that crossed octo? It's danged uncomfortable isn't it? Well, that is punishment, for running out of gas.

 

[Thalassamania]

Let's do as you suggest: "Think about it logically and as long as you have good reason for (insert thing the diver is doing here) and it doesn't present any danger than that's how you should dive. Whatever makes you safer in the water"

Given that:

1. A diver who is out of air and wants air from you, unless remarkably well trained and practiced, will be focused on the working regulator in your mouth.
2. If you are going to surrender the regulator in your mouth then, given the crossed hose problem and such, it is best to have a hose that is at least 4 feet long.
3. If you are going to have a hose that is at least 4 feet you must either stuff it or, to avoid potential strangulation, have a hose that is long enough to route under your right arm across your chest, over the back of your neck and into your mouth, that means a 5 or 6 foot hose.
4. It really does not matter what you decide to use as your personal auxiliary as long as it delivers enough air, does not interfere with your managing the situation, and you are well practiced in it's use.

As far as I can see logic kicks a short hosed primary out the porthole, it flunks because it does not make you "safer in the water." But I do agree with your premise concerning analysis.

 

[brutus_scuba]

Let's do as you suggest: "Think about it logically and as long as you have good reason for (insert thing the diver is doing here) and it doesn't present any danger than that's how you should dive. Whatever makes you safer in the water"

Given that:

1. A diver who is out of air and wants air from you, unless remarkably well trained and practiced, will be focused on the working regulator in your mouth.
2. If you are going to surrender the regulator in your mouth then, given the crossed hose problem and such, it is best to have a hose that is at least 4 feet long.
3. If you are going to have a hose that is at least 4 feet you must either stuff it or, to avoid potential strangulation, have a hose that is long enough to route under your right arm across your chest, over the back of your neck and into your mouth, that means a 5 or 6 foot hose.
4. It really does not matter what you decide to use as your personal auxiliary as long as it delivers enough air, does not interfere with your managing the situation, and you are well practiced in it's use.

As far as I can see logic kicks a short hosed primary out the porthole, it flunks because it does not make you "safer in the water." But I do agree with your premise concerning analysis.

For the record: Although I was trying to keep it out of the scope of this conversation I do agree with a long hose theory. I personally dive with a 7' hose with an alternate second on a short hose around my neck. I bring this topic up for the discussion of those who are always going to stick to a jacket style BCD and short hoses on the octo, or perhaps more fundamentally: Why is it taught this way in almost every OW scuba class?

 

[Thalassamania]

For the record: Although I was trying to keep it out of the scope of this conversation I do agree with a long hose theory. I personally dive with a 7' hose with an alternate second on a short hose around my neck. I bring this topic up for the discussion of those who are always going to stick to a jacket style BCD and short hoses on the octo, or perhaps more fundamentally: Why is it taught this way in almost every OW scuba class?

BC is a matter of preference and taste, short hose does not hold up to any logical argument as far as I can see. Twenty or so years ago we tried to get the agencies to all back surrendering the primary and got all sorts of horse pucky about how "that's my regulator and nobody ever touches it!" Our argument was based on first of all the focus of the OOA diver and the fact that surrendering the primary was exactly what you did when Buddy Breathing (which was still being done) so the initialization of the emergency procedure was exactly the same, the only difference was letting go of the first stage or retaining a hold to bring it back after two breaths. Your mistake here is expecting something in diving to be logical.

 

[reefdvr]

My octo is on my power inflator so there's one less hose to worry about.

 

[brutus_scuba]

My octo is on my power inflator so there's one less hose to worry about.

Well this presents a bigger problem. You're still using a short hose to donate to your partner and now your shoving a low pressure inflator hose in your mouth and I just can't see this being natural at all

 

[Thalassamania]

My octo is on my power inflator so there's one less hose to worry about.

I think that can be a fine solution for some people. I have a similar setup.

But my primary is still long hose and that's what I'd give to an OOA diver.

 

[ClayJar]

My octo is on my power inflator so there's one less hose to worry about.

I know many people who would say that, but I know of few who have worried enough about the one hose they have left. (Thal would be one of them, as noted above.) Is your primary regulator's hose long enough when you're sharing air in a slow free ascent?

Real-life (non-practice) air sharing situations seem to be watershed moments in the gear decisions of many people, at least from what I've heard from those involved. I have never read about anyone deciding to shorten a hose because it was too long during an air share, but there have certainly been plenty of times I've heard people say how eye-opening it was sharing air with configurations that seemed fine in practice shares.

("It's one less hose to worry about" strikes me as function following form. That doesn't make it wrong, necessarily, but hose count is right near the bottom of my personal considerations checklist. Ease of use in an out-of-air situation is rather close to the top of my list.)

 

[reefdvr]

I look at it as one less thing to worry about for entanglement situations and yes primary hose is long enough to be used for a slow emergency ascent.