Ethanol 10.

[Boston Diver Services]

Is anyone dealing with the switch to ethanol 10 for marine uses. Mass. marinas are required to change to this fuel by 6.1.06. CT and NY already use this fuel and I am wondering how it is going for them. Capt. Pat

 

[Nemrod]

That is so bogus, it cost more energy to produce the stuff than is gained and it ruins engines---just so we can be PC and farming with all the chemicals and fetilizers and soil erosion and space useage really is not enviromentally friendly. The real answer is nucleor power generation and smaller vehicles and howabout not wrapping a DVD in fifty layers of petroluem generated plastic. N

 

[captain]

Boats with fiberglas fuel tanks may have problems. Ethanol will slowly dissiolve polyesther resin.

 

[Nemrod]

Fertilizer made with and from petroleum and then tractors run with petroleum diesel fuel and then transporting the energy diffiecient fuel to the market and the production process to get the ethonal and on and on. What a waste to make people feel good about over consuming. Like going on a diet and eating twice as much. Every day I see people commuting in gigantic vehicles with one tiny little head poking up--barely---in a sea of steel and glass. You know, 12MPG even with 10% ethonal is not going to save nearly as much as buying a vehicle (next purchase cycle) that gets 20 or more MPG.
The worst is most pertroleum goes up smoke stacks into the atmosphere as heat and waste generating electricity. A few well placed nucleor plants could hugely begin to impact our petroleum imports. N

 

[Boston Diver Services]

I have read that it does a job on fiberglass and plastic fuel tanks. Mine are alum. I am wondering more about the frequency of filter changes and the possible failure of fuel lines.

 

[RP_Diver]

As a Brazilian, I have some experience with ethanol.

All the gasoline we buy is 25% ethanol. So it´s what you call ethanol 25. We do not have any problems with our cars/engines. Import cars from all over the world do not have any issue from Ferraris to Hondas. Boats with fiberglass tanks have a coating to protect them. Every think else is the same from filters to spark plugs.


We also have ethanol 100 for sale on gas stations since the late 70´s (Yeah petroleum crises created this). There are a few pros and cons that I´ll try to explain.


Pros
- As a renovable energy source, on the long run the price will to be reduced as producer gain scale economy. Here a gallon of ethanol is 40%- 50% chepear than gasoline
- Engine runs cleaner, the engine don´t build up carbon residues. (Have changed oil of a car after 10.000 miles and it was the same color that on the day I poured it on the engine)
- When burned releases less hydrocarbons on the air (= less polution)
- Engine produces more power

Cons
- Cold weather start, was a major problem on early models, now solved with eletronics, like pre-heating of the fuel injector.
- Less mileage, ethanol burning engines have 20%~30% less mileage compared to gasoline.
- Corrosion. As this type of fuel contains small amounts of water all metal parts in direct contact with it have to be nickel plated, to avoid corrosion on the long run, thus leading to more expensive parts.
- Prices follows production cycles (harvest period = cheaper fuel, think that is an issue here in Brazil becauce there are little regulamentatory reserves)


Recently car manufatures (VW, GM, FORD, RENAULT, HONDA, TOYOTA) started to sell multi-fuel cars. This cars able cosumers to choose wich fuel is best (gasoline or ethanol) based pump price.

And most of all Ethanol is our friend, it makes beer fun...

 

[rmannix]

Here in CT last year the biggest problems were clogging fuel filters. The ethanol loosens up sludge and junk built up in the tanks on older boats and it ends up in the filter. Older boats may also need to replace fuel lines that can't handle alcohol.

 

[FIXXERVI6]

That is so bogus, it cost more energy to produce the stuff than is gained and it ruins engines---just so we can be PC and farming with all the chemicals and fetilizers and soil erosion and space useage really is not enviromentally friendly. The real answer is nucleor power generation and smaller vehicles and howabout not wrapping a DVD in fifty layers of petroluem generated plastic. N

I'm curious where you get your information, it doesn't always cost more energy to produce, it depends on the stock and the mehtod, in America it probably does consume more than it produces because of the use of Corn and methods, Brazil is a success story for use of Bio Fuels.

As far as switching to 10% ethenol to be "green" is not the purpose, its regarding the use of MTBE, MTBE is being removed from fuel so they need something to replace it, right now ethenol is the runner up, and the idea is not new

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/0/2054b28bf155afaa852568a80066c805?OpenDocument

MTBE is a MAJOR polutant of fresh water.

 

[Nemrod]

Fixxer, as an ex petroleum geologist I fully understand the stuffl. As a professional mechanic I also understand. As a professional teacher I understand people.

All the swapping this way and that does not negate the need to reduce consumption. I have gone to smaller vehicles. When my wife bought a new car she went smaller, I went from a full size truck to a midsize picking up four MPG average, sometimes more. It can still pull my boat, pull my flatbed trailer/tractor. Her car also gets another five MPG average over her previous vehicle. Not much, but it is way more than the 10% ethonal savings. Do people really need to commute 30 miles in a Hummer?
This goes way beyond a scuba discussion--I wish this was the correct forum, I have tons of knowledge on the effects of alchohol products in engines and especially marine/outboards. It is not good. I know this because I have taken them apart and looked at them.
Yes, we can deal with it, no it will not be the end of the world, just paying more for less, less energy density, less quality, less performance, less efficiency, less everything except more money. N

 

[FIXXERVI6]

Fixxer, as an ex petroleum geologist I fully understand the stuffl. As a professional mechanic I also understand. As a professional teacher I understand people.

All the swapping this way and that does not negate the need to reduce consumption. I have gone to smaller vehicles. When my wife bought a new car she went smaller, I went from a full size truck to a midsize picking up four MPG average, sometimes more. It can still pull my boat, pull my flatbed trailer/tractor. Her car also gets another five MPG average over her previous vehicle. Not much, but it is way more than the 10% ethonal savings. Do people really need to commute 30 miles in a Hummer?
This goes way beyond a scuba discussion--I wish this was the correct forum, I have tons of knowledge on the effects of alchohol products in engines and especially marine/outboards. It is not good. I know this because I have taken them apart and looked at them.
Yes, we can deal with it, no it will not be the end of the world, just paying more for less, less energy density, less quality, less performance, less efficiency, less everything except more money. N

You would rather see the use of MTBE over Ethenol? I run Bio Fuels in my truck, I'm curious what damange ethenol does to an engine, if you want to split a thread or PM me I'd be curious as there are engines built to run on blends of it.