ianr33
Contributor
And I suppose having less than 25 lifetime dives make you an expert on Technical Diving?
Entry Level Solo Diver
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And I suppose having less than 25 lifetime dives make you an expert on Technical Diving?
ScubaSteve:
Don't bother. If he were concerned about his safety he wouldn't be diving solo at all with less than 25 dives.
OP
I appreciate the concern and comment, but to clarify I skirt the edges of the kelp. I'm not entering the actual kelp forest, only using it as a reference line for the dive and to hopefully see some life.
OP
I guess you are right. I don't care at all about my safety. Guess I'll have to wait to dive until a magical thing happens after 25 dives. Do I click my fins and spin around under water and chant anything to make it OK then? I'm not a teenager, have a lot of common sense and can take care of myself. I'm not going to let a # of dives prevent me from enjoying the ocean floor. I admit it's been about 22 years since I last dove, and pretty fresh out of cert too, but do you have as many dives as posts or do you dive from your keyboard? I thought the point of this forum was to learn from one another and discuss diving. Seems you have forgotten that.
ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
What you need to understand here is that with less than 24 dives, you have no clue how big a risk you are taking by diving solo. As with any diver, you cannot know, what you do not know. Most divers get their certification and think they know everything they need to, and since they passed, their skills are up to snuff. The reality it, that this could not be farther from the truth.
The long term board members of SB, have seen things that you and I will not see for a LONG time. Unfortunately, this includes divers coming onto SB, asking a couple questions, and thinking they are ready for something. Many people take solo diving lightly, when it is absolutely nothing to be taken lightly. Did you dive safely when you dove solo? Maybe...nobody knows. Were you safe while you solo dove....this answer is likely "Only because nothing went wrong".
I STRONGLY suggest you gain MUCH more experience and get further training before you consider solo diving. You can and will do what you want, but that is the most responsible advice that can be offered IMO.
And now, if you post a question or comment here....you better be able to have someone not like it or disagree with you. Your inability to accept that Walter said what he did tells me you are not a mature enough diver (as a diver - confident enough in your knowledge) to solo dive. Just my opinion.
By the way, Walter has more real life knowledge and experience that you and I will likely have combined in our lifetimes. No need to call into question his qualifications to post in this forum.
The long term board members of SB, have seen things that you and I will not see for a LONG time. Unfortunately, this includes divers coming onto SB, asking a couple questions, and thinking they are ready for something. Many people take solo diving lightly, when it is absolutely nothing to be taken lightly. Did you dive safely when you dove solo? Maybe...nobody knows. Were you safe while you solo dove....this answer is likely "Only because nothing went wrong".
I STRONGLY suggest you gain MUCH more experience and get further training before you consider solo diving. You can and will do what you want, but that is the most responsible advice that can be offered IMO.
And now, if you post a question or comment here....you better be able to have someone not like it or disagree with you. Your inability to accept that Walter said what he did tells me you are not a mature enough diver (as a diver - confident enough in your knowledge) to solo dive. Just my opinion.
By the way, Walter has more real life knowledge and experience that you and I will likely have combined in our lifetimes. No need to call into question his qualifications to post in this forum.
OP
ScubaSteve,
I have no problem with somebody not liking what I may post on SB. And, I have no doubt Walter has far more experience than I. I can understand and appreciate the volume of people that come onto this forum, read a few posts and then go do whatever. Not arguing that I don't have the same dive experience. I guess what I don't like is a higher than thou attitude about it. That is how it was perceived. Walter wasn't even directing his comments to me but instead about me to somebody else. I'd rather pick Walter's brain to no end to learn, but it seems shameful he'd rather just talk about a person instead of offering sound advice like you just did. BTW, I hold no anger toward him still, just would rather he share input on a topic and not just snub his nose at somebody. By looking at his profile I saw he is an instructor, why not share knowledge then? That was my point about my comment on posting on this forum.
And to Walter:
I guess my point is I don't see where the #25 of dives comes into play. I could still be a dumba$$ after 50 dives or even a 100 so why did you chose 25? If I dove the rest of my dives with a buddy to 25 then SOLO'd would it be any better?
I'd like to be clear that I encourage opposition on schools of thoughts, but I would like to ask for reasons for said opinion. I'm not on this forum to ruffle feathers and piss people off. I came to this site to learn from others not argue with them. I hope this post sheds some light on this and if any SB person has a question of me they can either PM me or put it here for a public response. I make no bones about wanting to learn from others.
I have no problem with somebody not liking what I may post on SB. And, I have no doubt Walter has far more experience than I. I can understand and appreciate the volume of people that come onto this forum, read a few posts and then go do whatever. Not arguing that I don't have the same dive experience. I guess what I don't like is a higher than thou attitude about it. That is how it was perceived. Walter wasn't even directing his comments to me but instead about me to somebody else. I'd rather pick Walter's brain to no end to learn, but it seems shameful he'd rather just talk about a person instead of offering sound advice like you just did. BTW, I hold no anger toward him still, just would rather he share input on a topic and not just snub his nose at somebody. By looking at his profile I saw he is an instructor, why not share knowledge then? That was my point about my comment on posting on this forum.
And to Walter:
I guess my point is I don't see where the #25 of dives comes into play. I could still be a dumba$$ after 50 dives or even a 100 so why did you chose 25? If I dove the rest of my dives with a buddy to 25 then SOLO'd would it be any better?
I'd like to be clear that I encourage opposition on schools of thoughts, but I would like to ask for reasons for said opinion. I'm not on this forum to ruffle feathers and piss people off. I came to this site to learn from others not argue with them. I hope this post sheds some light on this and if any SB person has a question of me they can either PM me or put it here for a public response. I make no bones about wanting to learn from others.
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What people are trying to tell you, I think, is that the real classroom is underwater ... and without the experience to put context to what is said in this forum, the chances of real learning are low ... and the risks of misunderstanding what you're being told are quite high.
I have to admit that I got real nervous reading about your solo dives ... knowing how much experience you have. Sure, I don't know you ... and you MAY be that phenom who just naturally takes to scuba diving and does everything right the first time ... but the odds of that being the case are much lower than most people think they are. It's the rare individual who can be comfortable enough in the water and knowledgeable enough with handling in-water emergencies to be able to solo dive safely at your level of in-water experience. You might be that individual ... but the fact is that the vast majority of divers think they are better than they really are ... and only ever find their limitations when something goes wrong. If that epiphany occurs when you're solo, chances are you won't survive to learn from it. I had a friend who did that and died. I know of another diver of similar experience to yourself who thought he'd be safe doing just shallow solo dives at a "safe" dive site ... he died too. Once people you've known, talked to, and made friends with make those kind of mistakes, it tends to change your perspective on things.
I'm happy that you want to learn ... I applaud that attitude. My counsel is to slow down ... find a mentor and get some bottom time with an experienced diver. There's plenty out there (especially in your area) who are happy to hook up with a newb who has a good attitude, and "grow" an alpha buddy. Put more effort into finding one. Diving with somebody more experienced will teach you things that you'll never get in a classroom or on the internet. Develop a context ... based on experience ... around which to ask your questions, and comprehend the answers. I assure you, you'll come to appreciate the "Walters" of the world a lot more.
It's one thing to be "book smart" ... it's another altogether to understand the meaning of the knowledge that you read. Learning ... all of learning ... is based on relating what we read to what we've experienced. Shortcutting the experience can lead you to some wrong conclusions ... and in scuba diving, that can get you killed.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
I have to admit that I got real nervous reading about your solo dives ... knowing how much experience you have. Sure, I don't know you ... and you MAY be that phenom who just naturally takes to scuba diving and does everything right the first time ... but the odds of that being the case are much lower than most people think they are. It's the rare individual who can be comfortable enough in the water and knowledgeable enough with handling in-water emergencies to be able to solo dive safely at your level of in-water experience. You might be that individual ... but the fact is that the vast majority of divers think they are better than they really are ... and only ever find their limitations when something goes wrong. If that epiphany occurs when you're solo, chances are you won't survive to learn from it. I had a friend who did that and died. I know of another diver of similar experience to yourself who thought he'd be safe doing just shallow solo dives at a "safe" dive site ... he died too. Once people you've known, talked to, and made friends with make those kind of mistakes, it tends to change your perspective on things.
I'm happy that you want to learn ... I applaud that attitude. My counsel is to slow down ... find a mentor and get some bottom time with an experienced diver. There's plenty out there (especially in your area) who are happy to hook up with a newb who has a good attitude, and "grow" an alpha buddy. Put more effort into finding one. Diving with somebody more experienced will teach you things that you'll never get in a classroom or on the internet. Develop a context ... based on experience ... around which to ask your questions, and comprehend the answers. I assure you, you'll come to appreciate the "Walters" of the world a lot more.
It's one thing to be "book smart" ... it's another altogether to understand the meaning of the knowledge that you read. Learning ... all of learning ... is based on relating what we read to what we've experienced. Shortcutting the experience can lead you to some wrong conclusions ... and in scuba diving, that can get you killed.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Sas
Contributor
I don't agree with this. I have solo dived at new locations. Like buddy diving at a new site, I make sure I research the site, get a handle on what the potential hazards are and so forth. If I would do a new site with a buddy I would do a site alone as I don't see why I should only be self-sufficient in certain circumstances like diving at familiar locations.
I did my first solo dive at around 50 dives but not again until around 100 dives (though I don't get to dive solo enough, given my abundance of dive buddies). I think my early solo dive was foolish, given how ill-prepared I was to deal with any problems (I have never been a natural at diving.. but more from a skills point of view than a problem solving point of view). At 100 dives I had faced a fair few problems (in buddies, mostly) and seen how I dealt with it, I was comfortable in the water, developed good situational awareness, and mentally I felt fine for solo diving. For everyone this is different. One of my buddies has nearly 200 dives but is definitely not ready mentally to solo dive - he is very comfortable in the water however but he is way too dependent on me as a buddy to dive safely alone. When I dive with him I think I am more of a solo diver as I cannot rely on him. Another buddy started at about 150 dives, he has the right mindset, it really depends and although I think more experience helps it isn't everything.
A few of my buddies have only considered solo diving because of my enjoyment of it. I have to say, this makes me uncomfortable as I have been asked a lot of questions about the things I think about before a dive and so on, and I don't want to be an encouragement for them to start solo diving as I think that is a really personal decision and not something that others should encourage/discourage.
therealwwdiver
Guest
25, 50, 100... all these numbers could be considered arbitrary. Just cause I've done something the same way 100 times doesn't mean I did it right ONCE. That's why I took the SOLO course.
LeadTurn_SD
Contributor
1+
I list "Solo Diver" under my avatar here on scubaboard mainly to "tweak noses" after reading so many "You are gonna' die" comments regarding solo diving (in other sections of the board).
However, in real life I don't advertise that I solo dive. I often dive at times when no other divers are around. In fact, I really am totally solo on those occasions (nobody on the beach, nobody in the water).
I think solo is "taboo" for a good reason, and feel that any form of encouragement can be a mistake. If someone asks (here or in the real world) I'll be honest and try to give the best answers I can, but I believe it is ultimately a personal decision that is should left to the fully informed diver.
And that is the problem. Speaking from personal experience, most new divers are NOT fully informed. They are taught that solo is a big no-no, but not fully exposed to why it can be so dangerous.
And (apologies to all the instructors in this audience, this is not directed at you), it is my opinion that by and large current training often prepares new divers even LESS for solo than training did 30 years ago.
So if that is actually the case (and not just my opinion), maybe a course like the SDI Solo Course could have more value than I first thought it did.
Best wishes.
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