Ear Problems

[BillP]

Hi devjr:

Thanks for the attempt at clarification, and no offense taken (thanks for caring), but I'm afraid that what you're saying about the anatomy and pathophysiology of ear problems in divers still isn't clear at all, and for the most part your information appears inaccurate. I would suggest that your thoughts on the question at hand require further clarification.

While trying to get at accurate information might seem like "futzing around" to you, and it might be boring or frustrating to readers to have to wade through volumes of detritus to get at some good information, I would have to disagree that the process doesn't point to some practical benefit. I believe there is great potential benefit to dispelling misinformation and bad advice- especially to the original poster who might actually believe some of the things they read and pass it on to others.

I also appreciate your take on the purpose of this board and the workings of the Internet. I think that you would agree that while this board is indeed partly for the exchange of technical information (general or otherwise) and advice, the dispensing of accurate information and good advice should be the ultimate goal. Is it not a posters responsibility to refrain from dispensing bad advice on subjects they don't understand? Failing that, is it not other responsible board members' legitimate role to question when they see what looks like incorrect information or bad advice?

Which brings up a general Internet message board etiquette question that I hope you can help me with since you're so saavy and willing to help. In your opinion, when a poster on a message board does post incorrect technical information or gives bad advice (and does so on a semi-regular basis in certain subjects), it's pointed out to him, and he realizes what he's doing- should that poster contrive a multiple-post 8 paragraph manifesto trying to rationalize why he's correct and explaining that he somehow seems to have a right as a Good Samaritan to mislead people, while continuing to dispense incorrect information and causing lots of "futzing around" and boredom? Or should that poster admit that he really doesn't understand what he's talking about, refrain from offering technical information and advice on subjects he doesn't understand, and maybe even apologize for misleading the person asking the original question and causing such a ruckus? (Shouldn't that poster stick with offering "sympathetic words, entertainment, and anecdotes" and skip giving advice on the techincal stuff they don't understand?) Which is the better course of action in your opinion?

TIA,

Bill

 

[devjr]

I was referring to medical professionals, like yourself, as Good Samaritans. Some state legislatures acknowledge this for liability purposes so I thought it was understood.

Do I have proof that water in the inner ear of a particular person can be a source of bacteria and infection? Do I have proof that it even is an infection? No, but it's a reasonable hypothesis. However, this person is under professional care where a personal diagnosis is properly made. That's the important thing. This is just a chat room.

If you feel frustrated by my observations, that's understandable. I have more license to think or make statements "out of the box". However, these are made in good faith.

I'm not offended by criticism or contradiction. Etiquette simply requires a rebuttle, with specifics, not personal attack, which I am not implying by the way.

Hey, this is your turf by definition. If you want me to "budd out", just say so.

Last thought: if the problem is an allergy, what then? Aren't fungi a source of allergies?

 

[ScubaJorgen]

Yo everybody

I won't mingle in the discussion between devjr and Billp. Though I do have some knowledge about ears, but not so much. I'd like to post some notes.

Note 1
I have a description of the ear on my homepage: tag medical, diving physiology.

Note 2
I once tried to equalize (Valsalva) swimming upside down (my nose pointing to the surface). Felt like a big blow :boom: in my ear. I assumed I blew some water into my ear via the Eustachian tube. Normally I do not have any problem with equalizing... It took a few days to overcome.

Note 3
Usually the outer ear is a bit acid, keeping the critters, plants and fungus out. When swimming/diving water flushes the outer ear. The ear becomes a bit opposite-of-acid (i'am dutch, i do not know the proper english word). This gives our critters, plants and fungus a chance: inflamation occur (otitis externa or external ear inflamation). Flusing with the Rick Murchison cocktail keeps the environment in the ear acid.

Note 4
This summer I developed a external ear inflamation after a dive. I flushed with a H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide???) solution to desinfect, because I heard this had been prescribed by a physician in a similar case. This wasn't a good idea :bonk:. It worsened the ear. Probabely to high concentration H2O2 (2%). So kids, do not try this at home :nono:

Note 5
A few weeks ago my inner ear got inflamed during a cold. It started in the evening. During the night it got worse. In the morning the pain was gone. I heard bubbling sounds in the ears interior. Stuff was dripping out of my ear. I assumed a perforated eardrum. According to my physician, my eardrum was alright (he looked at it after 5 days). It was an internal and an external inflamation. Is this possible??

Bye

Jorgen

 

[devjr]

Jorgen, Like many Dutch that I met you have excellent English. I think that the word you are looking for is "neutral" or "basic" depending on the PH.

I can understand a bit of Dutch because it is similar to Platdeutsch(low German). Not very fluent in either though. Recently, I was watching a documentary on the 1953 storm, I began to remember the old news reels I saw as a kid. I hope you are saving your quality time for Costa del Sol or Tenerife, the North Sea looks rather hostile even at its best.

Anything's possible. A friend of mine seems be afflicted by something similar to your ear problem about once a year. Often I see cotton stuffed in his ears.

 

[BillP]

Originally posted by devjr

Do I have proof that water in the inner ear of a particular person can be a source of bacteria and infection? Do I have proof that it even is an infection? No, but it's a reasonable hypothesis.

Hi Devjr:

No, I'm afraid to say that what you've been posting here really isn't a reasonable hypothesis at all. I'm truly sorry you don't see that yet. I wish that I had been able to give you an inkling of your level of misunderstanding in this matter. I have evidently failed.

I don't consider this my "turf". A great many board members from various backgrounds make valuable contributions to these forums regularly, and I have learned a great deal from them. I do have concerns however that some readers might become too accustomed to the very high level of good information available in these forums and actually believe random musings such as you've presented here. It would be a shame if they were misled. It is not my place to tell anyone on this board to "budd out". But I might suggest, if you're going to continue pull incorrect medical advice out of your hat while you make it up as you go along, it would be a mark of good faith if you would include a disclaimer about what you're doing in your future posts rather than trying to pass off your own personal implausible theories as good advice.

Take care,

Bill

 

[RicHeaD]

Jeez guys, I'm sorry I asked the question. I fully understand the working of the ear. My own research into ears has shown me the dos and don'ts. My real question was on the allergy angle as I've not had a cold. I was just looking for a 2nd opinion.

Thanks again
Richard

 

[BillP]

Hi RicHeaD:

Could allergies contribute to a middle ear infection or even an outer ear infection? Sure.

Did it? As Rick implied-really no way of knowing from a post on a message board.

Do you need to use something to clear the Texas lake water from your ears? It's highly doubtful that water in your ear in November caused an infection 2 months later, but Rick's eardrops (and any number of other similar formulas) would likely reduce the chance of a diver getting an outer ear infection from diving. I don't use drops myself when I dive, but I probably would if I had ever had a problem with swimmer's ear.

HTH,

Bill

 

[virginia]

Hello from a new diver with ear trouble. Have you checked into the earpro mask? I',m hoping it will keep water out and thus prevent the infections. I have very limited info and looking for help myself. Good luck
Virginia A.

 

[Andrew Richardson]

Take a look at this site for a great discussion of ears & diving!

http://www.american-hearing.org/name/barotrauma.html#diagnosed