DSS (Deep Sea Supply)---Warning

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eelnoraa

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Doing something that you don't do for living is always more fun. People who fix iphone and laptop all day will probably prefer drysuit repair too, that is if they even have a clue what to do
 

tomfcrist

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If he knew he was moving and could not service the wing then this is a misrepresentation

Has Tobin stated that 2yrs ago he knew he was going to close his doors?

The warranty doesn't matter because the wing is out of warranty.

Now you are talking in circles. The warranty part of this conversation you should trace back...I’m not going to do the work for you. But I’ll give you a hint: it has little to do with the OP.

The OP is did not say he was losing sleep over it. He is just giving a friendly warning.

I don’t really care if the OP is losing sleep. My statement was a direct reply to a question you asked ME...not the OP.

I would not use you as an instructor or patronize any dive shop you work for.

Thank god for that. You seem like the guy that would sue Me because You got a speeding ticket on the way to class.


Bye
 

cool_hardware52

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Thank you for your civil reply. I am not sure what DSS actually is/was. When I called them on the phone for the wing repair, I talked to someone other than Tobin. The receipt came back saying Performance Lighting, but the envelope said DSS. I assumed that DSS is his side business. In my opinion, his move was handled wrong and shows his total lack of concern for his customers. He did not announce that he was moving to let people know that if they wanted something to order up. The only clue was his inventory was getting lean. I am sure he did not decide to move on a whim, he is not stupid. He could have set someone up to repair the wings. On many occasions he mentioned that he would repair the damaged wings for a reasonable charge. Whether or not this can be construed as a promise is for the courts to decide, if someone wants to pursue this legally. For a $300 product, I cannot see that they would.

The difference between your smartphone example and a wing is that smartphone manufacturers (other than Apple) do not advertise that they will repair the phone. I just bought a new Motorola phone, the battery is not replaceable, so I know the life of the phone is only 2 years, three if I am lucky. I don't believe that was the expectation of anyone the bought a DSS wing. The wing was not marketed as disposable.

I would be much more sympathetic towards Tobin if it was a health issue because that is beyond his control. Moving and retirement are his decisions and should be announced to let people know.

My big problem with DSS, is as soon as someone asks about a backplate and wing, the DSS cheerleading squad comes out and recommends DSS. Saying the wing is high quality (it is not), the customer service is great (it is not), and that they need to consult Tobin (which they do not). If someone pointed out that DSS is not a well-designed product, they got attacked either by Tobin or part of the cheerleading squad. If someone complains that Tobin is difficult to deal with, you are told he does not tolerate fools. In other words, you are a fool if you disagree with him. I was a fool for expecting that a wing returned from repair would actually hold air. It was my fault that it didn't. A newbie diver is not going to know that DSS is a small manufacturer and it at the mercy of Tobin after purchase.

To repair the wing, my thought is that you would need to rip the seams (where the zipper would be on a normal wing) to access the bladder. Then patch the bladder, and take it to a shoe repair or uniform shop to have it resewed. Alternatively, I guess someone could Rube Goldberg it and punch some grommets or eyelets into the wing to hold it together. I don't think Velcro would be strong enough. This is another problem with DSS, Tobin does not explain how to fix the wing and access that bladder. Full disclosure: I have LCD wings and they have zippers. I have no idea if my thoughts above are correct as I never seen a Torus wing in person.

Er, ah, gotta love your step by step repair guide for a product you don't own and know nothing about.

Suffice to say it requires a very high level of experience and skill to install and sew shut a Torus Wing. We even occasionally damage a bladder doing it. One reason we *always* tested every repair prior to shipping it out.......

Anyone with the most basic understanding of sewing would recognize how difficult it is to install a bladder in a Torus.

Short course, do try to pay attention:

Step one, remove all the molded rubber elements in the center panel of the wing.

Step two, remove the fittings

Step three, carefully seam rip the stitch path in the center panel

Step four, remove the bladder

Step five insert new bladder

Step six align the front panel with the back panel using a special fixture that indexes on the camstrap opening and on the round penetrations at 12 inch centers. (no not 11" centers)

Step seven, carefully sew the center panel, keeping in mind that the bladder is LARGER than the shell and wants to creep into the seam. You have to be able to hold the bladder back out of the sewn area as you do it., but you can't actually touch the bladder. Here again a special set of fixtures and techniques are required.

Step eight. Install and sew into place the custom DSS molded rubber trim for the cam strap openings

Step nine. Sew the wobble stopper in place.

Step ten. Fish the T nuts and sealing grommets into place

Step eleven Install and properly torque the fittings

Step twelve connect the corrugated hose

Step thirteen install the OPV

Step fourteen inflate and test.

Ya, no doubt just about anyone you might encounter on any random street corner should be able to to do this correctly on their first try, and would *Never* claim we sent them a bad bladder (and of course refuse to return the damaged goods for us to inspect like you did.)

And of course doing the above repair is a simple matter, just about anyone with a sewing awl and the tail gate to work on could do it. No special tools or skills needed........

Bottom line is quite simple, I'd hoped that my move would be accomplished more promptly and the down time would be short. But that was before an upstream neighbor flooded our construction project by mishandling his irrigation trenches and the local utility radically changed their requirements and time frame to run primary power to our new building.

No doubt you would have foreseen all these problems and invested in a mobile repair facility to insure there were no *gasp* victims of DSS. (you know divers that might have to wait for a repair)

Given that near instant repairs are the *absolute* norm in the scuba business creating victims (you know guys with out of warranty gear that need repairs) is clearly immoral and unforgivable......

The good news (for me anyway) is your campaign to smear DSS will have zero impact on me, or my income or my future. What will you do to fill all the time you devoted to smearing DSS?

Tobin
 

cool_hardware52

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[QUOTE="ams511, post: 8346311, member: 1618" I am sure the victim relied on it because who would purchase a non-repairable wing. The victim has suffered monetary damages because he spent $460 dollars and has a product that does not work. I see all the elements being present.[/QUOTE]

Victim? Really? Let's examine this ridiculous claim.

The er, ah, "Victim" purchased his gear over a year ago (when I expected the move to be much smoother)

Said "Victim" now needs post warranty service work. (Newsflash, I have zero "obligation" to perform this work, now or ever)

Said "Victim" may have to wait a bit (as is very common in the scuba industry) to get such work accomplished, oh the humanity....


That you elected to use the word "victim" simply confirms your poorly concealed animus for all things DSS.

Tobin
 
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Lorenzoid

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. . .
So, you're saying that patching a car tire is the same as soldering a tiny resistor that could kill your phone?
I have two wings, Apeks and Sopras, both of them zippered bladders , so it's easier to get to them, than to get to a car tire. Rest of the process is the same, apart from different glue and patch.

DSS wings are sewn closed--no zipper. They aren't intended to be user-repairable. That's what we're talking about here.
 

The Chairman

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That you elected to use the word "victim" simply confirms your poorly concealed animism for all things DSS.
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