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Great question, and I'm sorry I don't get here too much lately. You guys are keeping me too busy and our dive boats are anxious to get back in the water!
So, I get alot of emails, live chats, and saw a recent post here about which zipper to get. So, I figure I will drop a little bit of our experience and knowledge on the subject. MODS if you feel this is a sales pitch, or someone complains, please don't kill the thread. Just move it to our own forum. I feel it's more relevant here in Exposure. I would link to other sites, but not many people sell these or advertise them were we could link to a competitor to keep it fair.
Quick background, We serviced over 900 suits last year, so we have a pretty big repair department for drysuits. 106 last month. We do a LOT of repairs, and zips! Couple that with all the DIY people as well, and I think it's safe to say we might do more zippers than most and have seen almost every issue you can imagine with them.
So, this is what we have seen on HUNDREDS of YKK vs Tizips in the field.
Let's start with YKK. Now, Ykk no longer only does Metal Zips, they also have Plastic. So, when discussing, we can't just assume when someone says YKK, they are talking metal anymore.
YKK Metal - So, these are the longest standing zips in the field. Hands down, they take a beating and go. We continually see zips 10+ years old functioning perfectly. Now, a few years back, YKK quality has dropped a little. The biggest failure is that the material delaminates near the end of the zipper and teeth area. Is this every zip? Absolutely NOT. But, it's the most common. The other is missing teeth. These little brass boogers can get stuck or fly off, not too common though. What is more common is that you will drop a tank on it, slam it in your car door, or step on it. The biggest problem is it's never laying flat when that happens. Meaning you just Sandwiched that zip...and there it goes instantly trashed. That metal that is really durable, also has a pretty big weakness. You can't bend it or fold it too much or you will ruin it. That is an extreme case, but it happens and often. These zips are pretty leak proof when installed properly, unless the odd chance it delams (about 5 in 1000). So, if you don't wax it, it's NOT going to leak. It's just not going to slide that easy, not that they do anyway compared to plastic, but it will be a tougher pull. Easy fix, wax it every 5-10 dives or when it starts to be a tough pull. Waxing too much will cause it to also pull slow though. So, take a soft brush tooth brush (NEVER METAL), and some acetone or even water, and clean it every 50 dives or when it is all gunked up from the wax. Typically if this delams, it will be after 3 years or a couple hundred dives. IF it's going to delam
YKK Plastic - Great alternative to metal. It's much more flexible and closes/ opens with little effort. These have a Urethane zipper surround, so they can be tricker to install. Not everyone has the proper glues needed to make these work on the different suit fabrics. These are the newest of the plastic, and we only have about 50 in the field. Sweet zipper, with no issues so far. Even though it's plastic, it's still really durable. The biggest benefit is the biggest con of the metal. This is much more flexible, so if it gets a tank dropped on it, or slammed in a door, the zipper won't necessarily be instantly ruined. This one will typically only be ruined if one of the teeth breaks (never seen it). If it's folded, the teeth will usually just separate, and a quick zip pull fixes it. Just don't break a tooth! Again, these can be a little trickier for the DIY, only because of different glues. Some shops don't like working on Urethane drysuits in general, and have no such luck with the plastic zippers as they don't understand the glues needed for the different suit types. Some manufacturers use this zipper exclusively on their suits, and haven't reported any issues.
Ti Zip - The Original, the OG of the Plastic Zips! Early Ti Zips had some pretty big failures and leaks. This caused a deserved bad name for the TIZip. They have made a few different versions, and some pretty big improvements. That lead to the Masterseal, which is the one in the link and their most popular. Bare has been using it exclusively for a few years, which led others to also follow that lead. Flexible, durable, and needs a little lube every 5-10 dives on the docking end of the zipper. A couple drops of the supplied lube, and you are dry. Forget, and your friends will think you peed your pants if you go too deep (around 60ft) DON'T WAX A PLASTIC ZIPPER!
Now, we have about 800 of these in the field, and have only had about 5 issues. So, yes, issues, but not wide spread or anything worse than metal. Nothing big enough to say this is a bad zipper by any means. What we have seen is a little delamination near the teeth. This is easier seen than the YKK because once it starts, it continues. Metal can be smaller and harder to see. Any of these have been replaced by us under warranty (ones we sold or installed). So, really nothing to worry about. Pretty similar to the YKK above, but we haven't seen a delam issue in YKK plastic yet...but, there are a lot less in the field. If this is going to delam, it happens under 20 dives....IF
PHEW, my clariton D is wearing off, stupid allergies! So, if I didn't bore you yet. What did we learn? Plastic is by far better
I really don't intend to sway you one way or another, I have no agenda here. We offer both, and the choice is yours. In my opinion, and experience betweehn them.... the PROs far out weigh the CONs and plastic wins hands down. I could get any zip on my suits, and I will only do plastic in the future. If you want to send your suit for a new zip, we can take care of that, and there are LOTS of other drysuit repair shops also. Just make sure you ask how many they have installed on your suit type. If you decide to DIY, don't hesitate to contact us for advice on your exact suit to make sure you can have a dry dive after the install.
I hope this helps, and or spurs more questions or comments on this subject. Bring on the questions if you have them!
So, I get alot of emails, live chats, and saw a recent post here about which zipper to get. So, I figure I will drop a little bit of our experience and knowledge on the subject. MODS if you feel this is a sales pitch, or someone complains, please don't kill the thread. Just move it to our own forum. I feel it's more relevant here in Exposure. I would link to other sites, but not many people sell these or advertise them were we could link to a competitor to keep it fair.
Quick background, We serviced over 900 suits last year, so we have a pretty big repair department for drysuits. 106 last month. We do a LOT of repairs, and zips! Couple that with all the DIY people as well, and I think it's safe to say we might do more zippers than most and have seen almost every issue you can imagine with them.
So, this is what we have seen on HUNDREDS of YKK vs Tizips in the field.
Let's start with YKK. Now, Ykk no longer only does Metal Zips, they also have Plastic. So, when discussing, we can't just assume when someone says YKK, they are talking metal anymore.
YKK Metal - So, these are the longest standing zips in the field. Hands down, they take a beating and go. We continually see zips 10+ years old functioning perfectly. Now, a few years back, YKK quality has dropped a little. The biggest failure is that the material delaminates near the end of the zipper and teeth area. Is this every zip? Absolutely NOT. But, it's the most common. The other is missing teeth. These little brass boogers can get stuck or fly off, not too common though. What is more common is that you will drop a tank on it, slam it in your car door, or step on it. The biggest problem is it's never laying flat when that happens. Meaning you just Sandwiched that zip...and there it goes instantly trashed. That metal that is really durable, also has a pretty big weakness. You can't bend it or fold it too much or you will ruin it. That is an extreme case, but it happens and often. These zips are pretty leak proof when installed properly, unless the odd chance it delams (about 5 in 1000). So, if you don't wax it, it's NOT going to leak. It's just not going to slide that easy, not that they do anyway compared to plastic, but it will be a tougher pull. Easy fix, wax it every 5-10 dives or when it starts to be a tough pull. Waxing too much will cause it to also pull slow though. So, take a soft brush tooth brush (NEVER METAL), and some acetone or even water, and clean it every 50 dives or when it is all gunked up from the wax. Typically if this delams, it will be after 3 years or a couple hundred dives. IF it's going to delam
YKK Plastic - Great alternative to metal. It's much more flexible and closes/ opens with little effort. These have a Urethane zipper surround, so they can be tricker to install. Not everyone has the proper glues needed to make these work on the different suit fabrics. These are the newest of the plastic, and we only have about 50 in the field. Sweet zipper, with no issues so far. Even though it's plastic, it's still really durable. The biggest benefit is the biggest con of the metal. This is much more flexible, so if it gets a tank dropped on it, or slammed in a door, the zipper won't necessarily be instantly ruined. This one will typically only be ruined if one of the teeth breaks (never seen it). If it's folded, the teeth will usually just separate, and a quick zip pull fixes it. Just don't break a tooth! Again, these can be a little trickier for the DIY, only because of different glues. Some shops don't like working on Urethane drysuits in general, and have no such luck with the plastic zippers as they don't understand the glues needed for the different suit types. Some manufacturers use this zipper exclusively on their suits, and haven't reported any issues.
Ti Zip - The Original, the OG of the Plastic Zips! Early Ti Zips had some pretty big failures and leaks. This caused a deserved bad name for the TIZip. They have made a few different versions, and some pretty big improvements. That lead to the Masterseal, which is the one in the link and their most popular. Bare has been using it exclusively for a few years, which led others to also follow that lead. Flexible, durable, and needs a little lube every 5-10 dives on the docking end of the zipper. A couple drops of the supplied lube, and you are dry. Forget, and your friends will think you peed your pants if you go too deep (around 60ft) DON'T WAX A PLASTIC ZIPPER!
Now, we have about 800 of these in the field, and have only had about 5 issues. So, yes, issues, but not wide spread or anything worse than metal. Nothing big enough to say this is a bad zipper by any means. What we have seen is a little delamination near the teeth. This is easier seen than the YKK because once it starts, it continues. Metal can be smaller and harder to see. Any of these have been replaced by us under warranty (ones we sold or installed). So, really nothing to worry about. Pretty similar to the YKK above, but we haven't seen a delam issue in YKK plastic yet...but, there are a lot less in the field. If this is going to delam, it happens under 20 dives....IF
PHEW, my clariton D is wearing off, stupid allergies! So, if I didn't bore you yet. What did we learn? Plastic is by far better
I really don't intend to sway you one way or another, I have no agenda here. We offer both, and the choice is yours. In my opinion, and experience betweehn them.... the PROs far out weigh the CONs and plastic wins hands down. I could get any zip on my suits, and I will only do plastic in the future. If you want to send your suit for a new zip, we can take care of that, and there are LOTS of other drysuit repair shops also. Just make sure you ask how many they have installed on your suit type. If you decide to DIY, don't hesitate to contact us for advice on your exact suit to make sure you can have a dry dive after the install. I hope this helps, and or spurs more questions or comments on this subject. Bring on the questions if you have them!
