Dry suit questions

[Lee Taylor]

I have always been a warm water diver (75 degrees F to 85 degrees F). I am thinking about doing some diving in 60 degrees F to 70 degrees F water. So, I have started wondering about dry suits.

1. Do dry suits come in different thicknesses, for instance, like wet suits?

2. I like to pay somewhere between middle of the road and top price for my gear. What should I expect to pay?

3. Can you wear anything underneath or does the clothing underneath have to be a particular material, etc?

4. How much value is there in a dry suit training course?

5. I have seen guys inadvertantly flood their dry suits. What is up with this? How often does this happen? What is the likelyhood of this occurance?

6. What are the primary concerns when operating a drysuit?

7. What are the current popular brands in dry suits? Is there a particular brand that is significantly better than the others?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rocketmahn]

Lee - all good questions. All are answered in a course - I found the PADI Drysuit DVD & book on Ebay for $15. Money well spent before you buy a dry suit. There are many different types.

Also here is a link to DUI that answers many of your questions:
Common Drysuit Myths

I'm sure that many others will chime in as there is lot to answer!

 

[Bubbletrubble]

1. Do dry suits come in different thicknesses, for instance, like wet suits?

Yes, they do. Perhaps a more appropriate answer is that drysuits are made of different materials (neoprene, crushed neoprene, trilaminate, bilaminate, etc.). These different materials have varying insulating properties which can be supplemented by wearing an insulating undergarment.

2. I like to pay somewhere between middle of the road and top price for my gear. What should I expect to pay?

People will give a range of answers to this question. I'd say $1,400 - $1,800. Drysuit undergarments can be very expensive as well ($300+). Also consider that you may have to buy other drysuit accessories (hood, rockboots) as well as another set of "drysuit fins" to accommodate an oversized drysuit rockboot.

3. Can you wear anything underneath or does the clothing underneath have to be a particular material, etc?

Yes, you can wear stuff underneath the drysuit. Bear in mind that some undergarments designed to be worn with drysuits may still retain significant insulating properties even during a flooding incident. Also, another reason to pony up the bucks for a drysuit undergarment is that the garment might have greater insulating properties for a given amount of bulkiness.
No, the undergarment doesn't necessarily have to be made of a particular material. Many different ones work. Many use some flavor of Polartech fleece. I recommend wearing a separate wicking layer (polypro) underneath the undergarment.

4. How much value is there in a dry suit training course?

As with any course, the "value" is largely dependent on the instructor. Find a good instructor and it can be worth it. That being said, I have known many experienced drysuit divers who never took a formal class. If you buy your drysuit from your LDS, often times the owner/manager will throw in a "free" drysuit class with the package.

5. I have seen guys inadvertantly flood their dry suits. What is up with this? How often does this happen? What is the likelyhood of this occurance?

Drysuits can flood for a variety of different reasons. Think of the various parts of a drysuit. When those parts fail, water will be admitted into the suit. Here's a short list of things that can happen: neck/wrist seal tears, exhaust valve becomes leaky, inflater valve becomes leaky, something sharp punctures the drysuit material, a seam in the drysuit wears out, too much neck turning "breaks" neck seal, too much flexing of the wrists causes leaks through the wrist seals, prominent wrist tendons causes leaky wrist seals, forgetting to zip up completely, a malfunctioning zipper, etc.

6. What are the primary concerns when operating a drysuit?

IMO, primary concerns include: runaway ascents, proper buoyancy control, and achieving horizontal trim. After the dive, my main concern is doing the proper maintenance and storing it properly.

7. What are the current popular brands in dry suits? Is there a particular brand that is significantly better than the others?

DUI, Bare, Whites, Viking, Pinnacle/Zeagle. I'm sure I've left many brands out. These are the brands that we see a lot here in Southern California.

There are lots of good threads on drysuits here on SB. Do a search.

 

[Bogie]

Dry suits do come in different thicknesses but that is more for protection and toughness than thermal protection properties. I have DUI drysuits. The TLS350, with kevlar knee pads, is thin trilaminate material, light and dries quickly. The CLX450 is a thicker heavier dry suit which is strong and tough. If you cave dive or bump into a lot of muscles etc. you would want a tougher suit like the CLX or CF DUI models. I like the TLS350 better because I don't need the tough protection and I like that it is light and dries fast but my old 450 is my bud.

Warmth in dry suits is accomplished by air. Water transfer energy (heat) 25 times faster than air. That is why drysuits are much warmer because you lose heat at a much slower rate.. You use the drysuit under garment for thermal protection. They vary in thickness and thermal protection.

The safety issues with drysuits are uncontrolled ascent and complete flood. Air releases from drysuit a bit slower than a BC so your buoyancy is very important. If you go head down the air bubble will go to your feet so you have to tuck and roll to get head up to release air. You should not have too much air in your drysuit and some people use gators on their shins to eliminate that problem. I don't know anyone that had a flood that was dangerous. Sometimes people forget to zip it all the way and jump in and of coarse the water rushes in. Sometimes you get a seal leak but that is usually your fault because you did not make sure your seals were put on correctly.

Yes get trained properly. Some agencies teach to use you dry suit only for buoyancy. That is completely WRONG and is a safety hazard. GUE teaches only to put enough air in your drysuit to release squeeze. DUI says no air bubble bigger than hand to mid forearm when raised then use your BC. I would get trained by an agency that does NOT teach the "only use your drysuit for buoyancy".

To save money you could buy used but you must be careful to get the right size and make sure the zipper and seals are in good shape. A new zipper costs $400. I bought mine used and one was a grate deal and one was not (new zipper).

I would go to the major manufacturers of drysuits. They have good information to get you up to speed. Hope this helps.
DUI
Diving Unlimited International / drysuit manufacture
BARE
BARE Scuba Diving - USA
Whites
Whites Diving Homepage - Whites Diving

 

[tight rope walker]

I have always been a warm water diver (75 degrees F to 85 degrees F). I am thinking about doing some diving in 60 degrees F to 70 degrees F water. So, I have started wondering about dry suits.

1. Do dry suits come in different thicknesses, for instance, like wet suits?

2. I like to pay somewhere between middle of the road and top price for my gear. What should I expect to pay?

3. Can you wear anything underneath or does the clothing underneath have to be a particular material, etc?

4. How much value is there in a dry suit training course?

5. I have seen guys inadvertantly flood their dry suits. What is up with this? How often does this happen? What is the likelyhood of this occurance?

6. What are the primary concerns when operating a drysuit?

7. What are the current popular brands in dry suits? Is there a particular brand that is significantly better than the others?

Thanks in advance.

Hi, I am just trying to help here as I am no expert.

Dry suits come in different thickness, but not for the same reason you would think of as a wet suit. Dry is dry is dry. The difference is between a sport/recreational suit, and a commercial suit, which is normally a thicker, more resistant material. I do not believe the thicker material keeps you any drier, it is just more durable. Remember the difference between dry and warm.

I believe you could pay between 1000-1800 dollars, once again based on quality. Commercial suits can go for far more than that. My viking cost 1600 without undergarment. Add the rings and exhaust valve in the latex hood plus undergarment, and I am over 1800. Some suits can be had for far less. But remember the word dry.

In warmer water I just wear a sweat suit, in colder water ( below 40 degrees ) I wear a one piece thinsulate suit. It all depends on the level of warmth you want. Once again dry does not= warm.

I have never taken a dry suit course, but then again I have never taken a equipment specialist course either.

I myself have never flooded my suit. But remember, even a pin hole will produce water to enter at depth. The most important parts of the suit are the neck seal, wrist seals, the hood, and most importantly, and the single most expensive to replace, the zipper. If any one of those items fail, either by themselves or as a group, you are going to get water. Or, as happen in one case when somebody forgot to have somebody zip them up. OOOOOPPPPPPPS!

As is everything else in life, everybody has their own concerns when diving with a dry suit. For me given my experience level, it has become second nature. But the single most concern that I constantly monitor is my attitude underwater. With a dry suit you introduce air from your first stage directly into the suit. As we know, air raises to the highest part of the suit. The last thing I want is to have my feet higher than my waist. So when I dive I am constantly in a head. slightly higher than my feet, attitude. I can remember as a kid, hearing these horror stories of divers being found hanging up side down. For that reason I wear ankle weights. Obviously, I try my hardest not to puncture it while diving.

Popular brands, There are many brands out there with their own customer loyalty. The two brands that I keep my eye on are Viking, and Dui. I have been with Trellborg/Viking since 1985 and have absolutely no issues. My suits have seen extreme service and have never failed. I have been under the ice more times than I can, or want, to remember. If I did not own a viking, I would probably own a Dui, as I believe they are a reputable company. In the mid eighties, Typhon used to make a Kevlar suit, that I thought was pretty interesting.

The other thing I would keep in mind is if you want a suit you can get into by yourself ( self donning ), or you do not mind somebody helping you. Remember the flooding story.

I hope in some small way this helps.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Bogie makes a lot of good points. He apparently has more than one drysuit. I only have one, so take my opinion for what it's worth.

Some agencies teach to use you dry suit only for buoyancy. That is completely WRONG and is a safety hazard.

This is a debatable point. Under certain circumstances (single tank, depth of 60 fsw, properly weighted), adding gas to the drysuit is just about the only buoyancy gas you'll need to achieve neutral buoyancy at depth. In these instances, you are using your drysuit only for buoyancy. Perhaps a more balanced recommendation is that novice drysuit divers should learn how to dive the drysuit both ways: drysuit only for buoyancy and putting just enough gas in the drysuit to offset squeeze with the rest of the buoyancy gas in the BCD. There will be situations when the drysuit diver will want to run more gas in his suit than the minimal amount to offset squeeze.

Yes, the PADI manual may teach using the drysuit only for buoyancy, but many PADI-affiliated instructors teach how to do it the other way, too. Not a big deal really. Also, it's definitely something that most people are capable of learning on their own.

To save money you could buy used but you must be careful to get the right size and make sure the zipper and seals are in good shape. A new zipper costs $400. I bought mine used and one was a grate deal and one was not (new zipper).

I think the $400 estimate for dry zipper replacement is a bit high. Most repair shops quote a price a little over $300. (Still quite expensive, though.) DIY replacement is more affordable. Replacement zippers can be purchased for $120. The cost of drysuit adhesive will vary. And, of course, there is the opportunity cost of your time and inhaling any toxic fumes during the process.

I would not recommend buying a used drysuit unless you know how to evaluate the condition of the dry zipper, the seams, the inflater and exhaust valves, and the seals. Probably the best way to evaluate all of these things is to actually dive it. Very few novice drysuit divers do all of these things before buying a drysuit on Ebay or Craigslist. That makes the purchase way too risky IMHO. If you are considering purchasing a used suit, please take along an experienced drysuit diver that can help you make an informed choice. Buying a new drysuit from an authorized dealer is often times a much better choice because all of the aforementioned items are covered under warranty for at least the first 1-2 years. Novice drysuit divers shouldn't burden themselves with learning how to fix a drysuit at the same time they are learning how to operate one. But that's just how I feel about it...

 

[mrfixitchapman]

Snoop around to find dates and places for drysuit demo days. Every manufacturer wants you to buy one of theirs. A few weekends worth of research and test-dives will tell you just about everything you want to know in order to ask intelligent questions and look for intelligent answers. That's my 2 psi. Well, that and if it can leak it will, Murphy knows drysuits.

DC

 

[fisheater]

OR, you can avoid all of the above and just dive wet.

60 degrees just isn't all that cold. YMMV.

 

[D_B]

Boubletrouble has already given you some good information
I'll add this ... What would you do and learn in a good/thorough drysuit training class ?
I found mine to be quite eye opening , my report ... http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/advanced-scuba-discussions/260824-dry-suit-class.html
... any questions about why we did it the way it was done is answered in that thread

 

[Tigerman]

To give you a basic idea of the different types of suits;
Neoprene: The basic type. Bulky. Will still insulate to some degree if it get flooded.
Crushed Neoprene: Bulky, but not quite as bad as the regular neoprene suits. Already compressed (crushed) so you wont get the swings in bouyancy and thermal protection you will from a neoprene suit.
Laminate: The most comfortable on land, but no inherent thermal protection. Will not work as a very wetsuit like the neoprene suits will if it spring a leak.

The ideal suit if traveling and not diving very cold is probably a laminate suit, but thats also gonna cost you the most (probably ~$1500+ while a decent crushed neoprene suit will be ~$500 less)