Drug addiction 2...

[CD_in_Chitown]

people are addicts for a reason. if you treat the addiction (which is awesome,
and needs to be done), you're just treating the sympton.

Bingo!

Actually TSandM is a surgeon so I think that her medical advice is sound and is certainly a good answer.

I am aware of our equestrian loving, surgical resident here on SB. And allow me to say to TSandM I value your opinions on many various subjects.

My concern with the placement of the thread is that it pushed this off to a "non-diving related" forum. I believe someone asking about addiction and contra-indications seems to be a diving medicine question.

Secondly, TSandM's suggestion that a physical is in order is to me, shortsighted. A thorough physical is commonly a required step in a comprehensive rehab program.

Kim, perhaps you've been influenced by the TV version where you lock an addict in a room for a couple days until the DTs are over and they are all cured. If it were that simple then I'd agree a physical is the logical next choice.

But as Andy has pointed out, addiction is a manifestation of a deeper problem that motivates the self-destructive behaviors. Just because they are physically fit doesn't mean that the self-hate has been removed, it doesn't show up on x-rays or blood tests, it is explored and addressed throughout a rehab program.

 

[Kim]

CD....I agree with your last comments. First off though....the thread was started by the OP in Non-Diving (no-one moved it there) although it has now been moved to here.

Andy and yourself are completely correct as regards underlying causes. Actually I alluded to that in my first post concerning 'mental' vs 'physical' dependancies. I was very involved in drug rehab in the UK for 8 years - so I know the problems.

However - if I read the original question accurately it had less to do with what constitutes a proper rehab program, or how difficult that is, but rather when is it safe to dive. Now I think you'd agree that that is actually a slightly different question. In terms of what's physically going on in someones body that might actually preclude them from diving then I believe that both TSandM and myself were simply pointing out that while the chemical physical effects may be over - there could well be other damage that isn't - and that needs checking with a specific view to diving. I am certainly NOT trying to downplay the rest of the story - but it's not your problems that are going to kill you at 30 ft if your lung or something else collapses. Remember - we were both trying to answer the specific question asked - not suggest everything that is required for complete rehab.

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

Actually TSandM is a surgeon so I think that her medical advice is sound and is certainly a good answer. While I am not a doctor, I have reasonable experience in the field of drug rehabilitation.

So with your reasonable experience in the field of drug rehabilitation you feel that

anybody with a significant addiction problem should have a physical before going underwater

Instead of undergoing a rehab program (which normally require a thorough physical to give the recoveree an understanding of what they have done to their body through the period of use)?

Pardon me if I question the depth of your experience.

 

[Kim]

So with your reasonable experience in the field of drug rehabilitation you feel that



Instead of undergoing a rehab program (which normally require a thorough physical to give the recoveree an understanding of what they have done to their body through the period of use)?

Pardon me if I question the depth of your experience.

I think I just answered this...maybe you were typing at the same time? I'm not advocating diving as a rehab program - just trying to isolate what you would need to have nailed on the physiological side of the matter. There are VERY few people who can kick a drug habit without professional help on many levels.

 

[PaulChristenson]

I think I just answered this...maybe you were typing at the same time? I'm not advocating diving as a rehab program - just trying to isolate what you would need to have nailed on the physiological side of the matter. There are VERY few people who can kick a drug habit without professional help on many levels.

Even with help...the outlook is pretty grim...as an example AAs recovery rates are a highly protected secret because relapses are often as high as 90%...

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

I assume there are contra-indications for diving when someone is an addict,......Or do i need something else to focus her on to get her off the junk?

Yeah we were typing at the same time, in response to your statement;

but rather when is it safe to dive.

And your answer is it is safe to dive after a physical?

Check the OPs quote above, I gather this is a using addict and the OP is looking for a way to get her off the junk. Rehab seemed the best first step.

What the hell, get her a physical and throw her in the water. Just have a spoon and a lighter ready for the SI. :14:

 

[paulithepin]

Most persons who struggle with addictive disorders need, once detoxed-which can range any where from 3-14 days approximately depending on drug of choice or drug combinations-need positive involvement outside of the culture of addiction. Diving, once cleared medically and stable emotionally and mentally, can be a great therapeutic experience. Most divers are healthy, don't smoke, are stable emotionally as well as mentally and therefore provide a positive peer group that is necessary if a person needs to change people, places, and play mates/things while working a program of recovery. Several recovering individual post on recovery boards looking for sober dive partners, etc. This type of positive social reinforcement of a sober, fun, and exciting lifestyle are extremely beneficial to those new to life without drugs or alcohol. Just my thoughts on a subject close to my heart.

 

[dpbishop]

Addiction isn't necessarily an indication of an underlying problem. If it was former addicts who have resolved their 'underlyng problem' would be able to drink or do drugs recreationally without renewing the addiction. OTOH anyone with a significant history of addiction will have serious baggage to deal with even after completing rehab, especially if they started young. A twenty five year old who has been addicted since the age of 16 is, in many ways, a 16 year old in a 25 year old body. Emotional stability, impulse control, concentration; all these and more can be effected and could pose a danger when diving.

A few weeks of being clean is a long way from recovery, they really need to be concentrating on their program, not learning new skills.

The most important thing in recovery is for the patient to believe that sobriety is it's own reward. Offering carrots can be counter-productive; if you have dealt with addicts you know that, while under the influence of their addiciton, they are self-centered, amoral and adept at manipulation. They usually have a history of making promises that are broken once the reward is gained. You don't want to recreate that behavior in a person in recovery, so don't offer it as a reward for sobriety, just offer it as something you want to do with/for them when you think they can handle it.

Be careful what you ask for, though. I knew a recovered addict who transfered his addiction to his hobbies. When he took up scuba he spent a ton of money on equipment!!

Good luck.

 

[MoonWrasse]

Hi there

I have a similar question to the one Partridge posted, but didnt want to hijack his thread. I assume there are contra-indications for diving when someone is an addict, but cant really find a definitive answer as to whether its a complete no-no. Say, if it was a shallow, short duration, one or two time thing as a 'there is more to life' kinda thing, is that going to be far too much trouble than its worth? If they have been clean for a while (a short while, mind you- she is persistant- 3-4 weeks), what then. Or do i need something else to focus her on to get her off the junk?

Any advice much appreciated.

And i really do sympathise Partridge- my sister got caught using heroin almost 3 years ago and its heartbreaking seeing the changes she has gone through.

Well, having helped a friend kick H after many years of addiction, I'd say 3-4 weeks is still short term. It's much harder to kick than TV/movies let us believe, and your friend may well recidivise at some point. In fact, that's a given, as H is such a strong pull.

If your friend is on methadone maintaince, they may be required to test clean before being able to have take homes. That's one way of monitoring their cleanliness. Mind you also that meth is also a drug.

These drugs will mask pain, I don't know id that is a risj.

You're correct, IMO, in getting your friend to focus on something positive, like diving. It's really helped for my friend after all these years.

Oh, and another thing - there have been many "functioning" addicts in history, including Bela Lugosi and Meriwether Lewis.

 

[PaulChristenson]

Hi there

I have a similar question to the one Partridge posted, but didnt want to hijack his thread. I assume there are contra-indications for diving when someone is an addict, but cant really find a definitive answer as to whether its a complete no-no.

On PADI's medical form it states quite clearly...
Any recreational drug use or alcoholism in the past five years needs an Physician clearance!!

If DAN and physicans are concerned about OTC meds and diving...how do you think they would react to someone using illict drugs???

http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/articles/article.asp?articleid=52

Here is a presentation that discusses some various drugs physiologic effects:

http://www.adp.fsu.edu/PENSpring2006/pennotesSpring2006/DrugsandDiving.pdf

Finally here is a discussin dealing with Marijuana:

http://scuba-doc.com/marij.html