Drawing the line.

[miketsp]

My wife & I regularly go on organised dive trips with one particular LDS and recently had an experience which left me irritated.
I would like to hear some opinions to decide whether I am being too uptight or not.

We like to dive with this group because it is very friendly with members in all age-groups and there are some young DMs. There is quite a lot of friendly joking & ribbing and the DMs/Instructors participate.

Now recently we were doing a night dive at a location which we didn't know, with a local guide. We both have quite a lot of night dives under our belt, but in all previous cases we had an opportunity to dive the sites beforehand during the day or late afternoon so we knew what we were getting into.

Also for this particular dive to avoid attracting some undesirable life forms, it was a requirement to descend in the dark, only illuminating dive-lights after passing below 5m and for the same reason the boat was practically in darkness. There was no moon.

So we kitted up and were at the platform ready to jump when my wife called out to check on the position of the guide. One of these young DMs, already in the water, answered that the guide had already descended. Well this stressed my wife a little as the plan was for us to group at the surface and then descend together. So she repeated the question with obvious worry and again the DM replied that the guide had descended. Remember that we could see absolutely nothing outside the boat.

Well hearing this interchange I got more than a little stressed and shouted out "Where's the *#xx#$** guide" as I found it hard to believe what I was hearing.

At this the guide flashed his light briefly and identified himself. He was right where he was supposed to be. So I exploded with the DM basically saying that he didn't know where to draw the line between what was OK behaviour with the group out of the water and the behaviour I expected from him while executing his function, in the water. He answered that he was just joking but even if the guide had gone down there would have been no problem as he himself was instructor qualified and could have lead the group. I knew he hadn't dove the site in at least 12 months.

My reaction was that if he was instructor qualified then all the more reason not be making stupid jokes in the circumstances.

Anyway, I took a deep breath, calmed myself down, made sure my wife was calm and we had a great dive.

The question now is, do I take up this subject with the LDS owner or not?
This was not the first time that the DMs had exhibited non-professional behaviour during dive operations but in my view it was the most serious. Or should I lighten up and treat it as a joke?

Where do you draw the line?

 

[JDostal]

I dunno. Myself, it wouldn't have bothered me. Then again...I'm one of those people that hate having my hand held and wouldn't want a guide anyway, so it wouldn't bother me at all. I would react more along the lines of "Hey cool, the guides already gone...lets go!".

Diving a new site @ night doesn't bother me either really...it's always dark in a cave, so I have no choice when it comes to a new one of those

 

[molksmith]

I haven't been on too many nights dives yet.
I was curious about the descending in the dark thing.
Why?
And what life forms were you looking to avoid?

 

[JDostal]

A lot of times on ocean night dives, you have to descend in the dark because the Jellyfish swarm to your lights So you keep the light off until you hit the bottom and start swimming so you don't end up in a jellyfish cloud.

 

[ScubaFreak]

Hey mike,

I'm thinkin maybe the fact that this operation as you mentioned were pretty good for fun and ribbing etc, may just have gone a wee bit too far considering you were unfamiliar w/the site. Now i agree, i too would be apprehensive about a site that I've never dived at night before, and agree that the DM should not have been joking like that.
But on the other hand, if you were familiar with the site and they joked like that when someone else asked the question, would it have bothered you, or would you have brushed it off realising that it was the kinda situation they may already joke about.

I hear you about where to draw the line though...can definitly be tricky at times.

I guess it wouldnt do any harm to mention that you were hoping for a little better from the DM since it was your first time at the site, but I dunno if I'd go all out and complain. Sounds like they're a pretty competent bunch, maybe they just need a quick reminder every now and then of the awareness of diver experience.

Hope this helps some,

Scubafreak

 

[OWSI176288]

Not to hijack the tread...but IMHO, if you where that concerned about the guide, maybe you shouldn't been doing the dive. Because it sounds like a "trust me dive" where you overly relying on the guide to get you through the dive safely.

 

[miketsp]

I haven't been on too many nights dives yet.
I was curious about the descending in the dark thing.
Why?
And what life forms were you looking to avoid?

In this particular case it was a small stinging jellyfish found in the 0-3m range which is attracted by light.

In previous cases it's been a variety of other life-forms.

Ex. fast moving needle-fish.

As their name suggests, needlefish are long, narrow and silvery. The smaller common species reach up to 15 inches long; the larger ones can grow to much more. In all species, the fish have needlelike beaks.

It's easy to miss them while snorkeling because they hover so close to the water's surface. (Snorkellers usually move along looking down.)
Some needlefish can leap from the water at high speed, skimming the surface before falling back to the water.

At night, lights sometimes attract and excite these fish, causing them to jump at speed. Needlefish beaks have penetrated light hulls.

Needlefish have punctured people in the chest, abdomen, arms, legs, head and neck and there have been reported deaths.

Anybody carrying a light close to the surface is in danger like night reef fishermen in low boats.
For many village fishermen in the Pacific, needlefish are a greater occupational hazard than sharks.

There have been reports of swimmers and divers being seriously injured by needlefish in Japan, New Zealand and the Red Sea. Depending on the time of year I've been told to take care in some places in Latin America.

It's also a good reason to keep your mask on until you get back in the boat.

 

[simbrooks]

Were you too uptight, were they unprofessional - 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Might be worth mentioning, but probably not to make a huge deal out of. As for the nature of the dive, i have done a few without first scoping out the lay of the land in the daytime (a compass, drifting current, several lights etc are helpful here), but you dont really needed the guide there with you every dive, but its useful to be shown the direction of the more interesting reef lines of the variety that might be out there.

 

[miketsp]

Not to hijack the tread...but IMHO, if you where that concerned about the guide, maybe you shouldn't been doing the dive. Because it sounds like a "trust me dive" where you overly relying on the guide to get you through the dive safely.

As you say it's not the subject of the thread and trust me dives have been well discussed elsewhere. However just for the record, I would have had no qualms about doing the dive on my own with my wife if we were the only pair on the boat, without the guide. My navigation and night diving skills are good.
However, I believe the issue here is a basic safety one that there was a plan and the group was diving as a group and the splitting up of the group would have caused additional unnecessary complications under the circumstances.
Remember that it was also necessary to resurface with lights out at the end of the dive.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

The line between acceptable ribbing and irresponsibility will vary for different people. If you use this dive op because you enjoy the ribbing and horseplay, you should probably take into consideration that other people on board probably wouldn't have been so bothered by your circumstance, it could have been well within there comfort zone of just normal shinanigans

If you want to dive with a more proffesional outfit, do it, it seems to me you went with this particular outfit for the opposite reasoning - in which case, you probably should have accepted it without blowing up and enjoyed your dive(which you did it appears).

You may also want to get more comfortable diving without a guide...