Dr. Blurt

[cavemanxxx]

Was flabber ghasted about the following article, and the assumptions drawn. What are you views on this "fatalities in solo diving conclusion"

http://www.asiandiver.com/magazine/03april_may/buddy_a_burden.htm

This was my reply ->


I read with great interest your article “Is your Dive Buddy a Burden”. I felt the statistics and conclusions in this article were questionable and un-balanced. “Solo diving" is not and was never intended for inexperienced, and incorrectly trained and equipped divers.

To be fair, I think it is important for the author to define what is a “solo diver” and a solo diver is not when drawing conclusions. A solo diver in my assessment is someone who has the correct training, understands gas / RMV / decompression calculations, has a fully redundant pony tank, knows where they should and should not dive solo, and more importantly, has a wealth of experience. A ‘solo diver’ is not someone who gets lost or separated from their buddy, panics, and then becomes a statistic. Nor is a solo diver someone who goes into a wreck or cave / cavern without the correct training and most importantly experience. That’s what we call an “irresponsible diver” , not solo diver.

Further more, it is very dangerous to place the responsibility for your life entirely in your buddy even if you buddy dive. Will they have enough air to get you out of a wreck ? Can you get their attention ? Will they be behind you always when you are in the lead ? If in a strong up current, can they stop your rapid ascent ? There are not many divers who can say that on every dive their buddy has been able to provide this kind of support. Buddies can add value to your dive, as can self reliance.

I think the focus should be put at the root cause of the fatalities, and that is poor training, low standards in the industry, poor judgment and bravado divers who feel they know everything after 3 months of diving because they have already got 5 plastic cards in their wallet. I started solo diving after more than 500 dives, and although I do enjoy the social aspects of buddy diving, the serenity and peace found during a solo dives can have a meditative effect. For those of you doing photography, we know that relying on your buddy is not an option as your buddy will be spell bound with that ever so rare ghost pipe fish just when you need them most.

As a final note, I do not encourage Solo Diving for most divers, and if possible , always dive with a competent buddy. For new divers, never be without a very experienced buddy. But having put my life at risk 3 times in the last 12 month whilst bailing out panicking dive master assigned buddies, I tend to feel that the buddy system can be just as dangerous, and for experienced divers, sometimes more risky than whilst alone.

 

[Charlie99]

caveman once bubbled...
Was flabber ghasted about the following article, and the assumptions drawn. What are you views on this "fatalities in solo diving conclusion"

The article is a well written, balanced discussion of the advantages of diving in a team. One could quibble with whether "separated buddies" should be counted as solo divers, but it is clear that failure of the buddy team, either by planned solo diving or as unplanned separation during the dive is implicated in many accidents and fatalities.

It is _very_ difficult to argue that two self-sufficient, capable divers are put into more danger by diving with each other.

In cases where buddies are of not equal experience, it may very well be that the more experienced one is more likely to be required to help the other. That's called "giving back". I find the enthusiasm of new divers infectious and enjoyable. If you are uncomfortable diving with inexperienced divers, then simply decline to buddy with them.

If you have had to rescue 3 panicked buddies in the last 12 months, I suggest that you should seriously review your dive planning ---- why are you and your buddies going into situations where they panic? How did you miss the early warning signs of panic?
On my last trip to Boynton Beach, Florida I buddied with a diver doing his 5th dive -- 1st one since OW cert 6 months prior. I modified the dive plan and dove the inside ledge and reef top rather than the 90' outside ledge. Similarly, I modified my dive plan a few days later in Marathon when the only 2 other divers on the boat were a couple with about 15 dives experience.

You closed by saying "For those of you doing photography, we know that relying on your buddy is not an option as your buddy will be spell bound with that ever so rare ghost pipe fish just when you need them most."
----- Simple solutions: dive in a team of 3. 2 people as buddies, the photographer as the "dependent buddy" being watched. An alternative solution that I've seen work well is a 2 person buddy team that swaps roles each dive between fish spotter and photographer. Fish spotter is always aware of the photographer. The photographer makes a point of checking the fish spotter before and after each shot, and while waiting for the shot if that takes more than 20 or 30 seconds.

Charlie

p.s. I don't claim that I've never dived solo. I just don't claim that solo is as safe as a 2 person buddy team.

 

[pt40fathoms]

Charlie99 once bubbled...


The article is a well written, balanced discussion of the advantages of diving in a team. One could quibble with whether "separated buddies" should be counted as solo divers, but it is clear that failure of the buddy team, either by planned solo diving or as unplanned separation during the dive is implicated in many accidents and fatalities.

Respectfully, I disagree.

The article was misleading and drew conclusions based on the "edited facts". To be specific, the author combined the statistics of deaths, by any outcome that ended with a diver being alone in the water, and attributed them to "solo" diving. The response Caveman made was correct in pointing this out.

I would be interested to see the raw data used as reference to this article.

 

[cavemanxxx]

Thanks, and I always enjoy a healthy discusson. It always makes you look at things from different angles ( and see other people points ).

Fully agreed, with very competent buddies, there are most definately benefits. No doubt.

I am pretty sure I dont need to go back to my dive planning, as I did not plan to dive with this guy anyway. The panicking "buddies" were not even my buddies. The last one for example was buddying with another guy, and paniced on the surface, spat the dummy ( reg) and was flapping his arms like a sea gull, and taking on water. I had the housed Nikon in my hand, planned a solo dive, and had one hand free, and was not keen on getting involved. The "trained" dive master was there and could only say " calm down now, calm down now " . When it was clear it was getting dangerous, I moved in, inflated the BCD with the panicked diver grabbing at me, and managed to put his reg back in. Laid him out flat and calmed him down. When he calmed, the "dive master " said " Are you OK now? Ready to decend ?". After a few explicatives I made it clear to the master than he was a novice and the guy is not going diving and will return to the boat.

His "buddy" was also a novice diver ! ( you will say huh , thats it, the dive master should never team too novices together...........and I could not agree more. ) But now we are getting to the root cause of the problem..... POOR STANDARDS in the industry.

I have seen so much of poor standards in the industry especially instructors and dive masters. Point taken, there are alot of good ones out there, but there are alot of questionable ones.

On another dive, in fairly big waves, I had to semi rescue a newly qualified instructor ( again, not my buddy ) who took out their reg whilst on the ladder trying to take their fins off. Head in the water, looking at fins, with big waves rolling over her head, gluping water. Why they take the reg out of their mouth whilst not even bing on the boat, especially in big waves is a mystery.

I could go on and on, but I have seen alot of "qualified" professionals who can barely manage their own dive, let alone looking after others.

There are risks with solo, lets face it, but people putting their trust and promoting how safe buddy diving is I feel are not really looking at the problem realistically. As I said, I have done about 200 solo's. and cannot remeber one case of a problem situation. On the other hand, there are plenty of cases I can remember where I have either seen an event unfolding, or had to get involved as above.

I would be very keen on seeing the stats / fatalities of fully qualified and competent Solo Divers versus the pool of buddy divers pairs.

As a final note :- I have never seen anyone fail an openwater course.

 

[Charlie99]

caveman started by bubbling...
.....having put my life at risk 3 times in the last 12 month whilst bailing out panicking dive master assigned buddies, I tend to feel that the buddy system can be just as dangerous, and for experienced divers, sometimes more risky than whilst alone.

but in his next message

caveman bubbled...
..... The panicking "buddies" were not even my buddies.

It's funny how the story changes, since these "panicking dive master assigned buddies" were your prime example of why the buddy system is dangerous for an experienced diver.

You can always choose not to dive with less experienced divers. My philosophy, however, is that were were all newbies at one time and I'm willing to go out of my way to help a new diver have a safe enjoyable dive.

I have no objection to divers doing solo dives, and occasionally do it myself.

I do object, however, to people who try to convince others (and perhaps delude themselves?) that solo diving is safer.

Perhaps you might try some introspection on why the article flabbergasted you so much.

Charlie

 

[cavemanxxx]

The article as written for a magazine, and detailed explainations on the legal and ethical frame work of whether he was an assigned buddy or not would not contribute to keeping it a short article or the point. In addition, the 3 cases were different. Would be happy so see how you can describe the legally correct situation of these 3 case in one sentance.

I my case, I felt that keeping the message clear and simple was better than a legally perfect description.

The message was, simple :

1. The conclusions Dr. Blurt stated were poor and incorrect leading one to believe that Solo Diving is more dangerous than buddy diving. If you are so sure it is the case, by all means show me the data to support it

2. The Buddy System is not all it is made out to be. You give the example of you taking a new diver down which we all have done and derive great pleasure from, but there are literally thousands of divers out there with a buddy who could not rescue a plastic bag, let alone a distressed diver ( see seagull example above ). Yet the put their full trust in their buddy.

Point really is that I have expereinced more risk situations whilst close to others than alone and my expereince with Solo diving does not match what the Buddy proponents make people believe.

It seems you are quite fixed in your support from the Buddy System and will simply not recognize the dangers inherrent in the system. We all know the benefits, so that requires no further calirfication.

Finally, there are new divers out there who believe they are safe because they dive with a Buddy, and we can just hope that their buddy follows them like a puppy dog, and has the capability to rescue them when the time comes.

Ironically, in the current magazine of Rodales Scuba Diving, some others have pointed out the same issues. Seems I am not alone after all.