Doubles Set-up

[simbrooks]

I have read a bit on here regarding tanks and even though they arent around til sometime in may, i was thinking of going for the E7-120's. I am about 6'3" and "tried" a set of E7-120 doubles on last night - that is felt them against my back, with my butt on the van floor with the bottom of the tanks the valves were just at above my shoulders and more than manipulable(sp?). I did this with my instructor's set as an aid to seeing how they might be for me. I was contemplating getting them in a full double set-up for future use, but split them up and keep them as two singles for initial overhead cave training (up to intro-to cave) with H valves, as this would be more economical than buying them in bits and pieces from tanks, to valves to bands/manifold/bolt kit later. This would also give me time to save up for a larger wing, another 1st stage, long hose, can light etc whilst i wore them as singles first.

So my situation is that i am actually buying two sets of tanks, the 120's for me and two E7-100's for my GF, all with "post"-like tank valves so that we can use H valves and have redundancy that way when our later training comes along. Now if each pair of tanks has a left and right post valve, one is left, one is right, can we just get one each of left and right H valve components to use for singles and just swap them over as we change tanks out each dive? That would be say me uding my right posted tank with right H valve and my GF using her left posted tank and left H valve, then at the end of the dive i move to my left posted tank and use the left H valve as taken off my GF's tank valve and she uses her right posted tank with the right H valve that was on mine the previous dive. This arrangement would save over $100 by not buying two additional H valves that would become obselete when i double mine up in the future. Does this put excess pressure on the valves being constantly swapped out or be loads of hassle to accomplish each dive?

We are also looking at setting up my GF with side mounting possibly, but that is a whole other discussion!

Does this all make sense to you all? I am still continuing to ask my instructor who will take us through overhead training in the future and also the LDS's around here as i weigh up their packages on this gear and general services for fills, inspections and other tests. I have been mulling this stuff over for a while now, and just reached a point where i wasnt sure on what could or couldnt be done.

 

[theskull]

IMHO -- Go right to the doubles. That's what credit cards are for. The intermediate solution you propose with all the singles and H-valves and swap-outs hurts just to think through. When you are diving singles, you want to swap out tanks between dives--you don't want to have a Hardware Wars scenario between every dive!

Most importantly, ask your instructors' opinions and TAKE them. . . or get another instructor. This will save you a lot of money in the long run and a lot of confusion over advice you get from on-line hacks whose qualifications you know nothing about.

OR, if you cannot afford doubles now, just enjoy continuing to dive recreationally with singles. Have fun and don't be in such a hurry to get into caves before you can afford to do so.

Have fun. Dive safe.

theskull

 

[simbrooks]

I firstly considered getting the 120's and 100's as singles only, for use with nitrox to last out a greater portion of the NDL. We had also thought about doing cavern, cave etc for some time and thought the H valves (needed for redundancy for intro-to cave) would come in handy for that, then doubles later. I understand the logistics of swapping this stuff out, but seeing as these would be our first set of tanks, if we went straight to doubles that would limit what could be done with them - ie lugging them around when i only need one tank for the job. Whereas buying them now, splitting them up and reassembling later when i have other tanks in my armoury would allow me some use. Maybe i just need to get some tanks for singles and purchase the double set-up later, i can afford one or the other right now, but probably not both!! I am still discussing of all this with my instructor (GDI off the board), who has several sets of doubles and more than willing and capable of taking us through stuff like this when we are ready/able. Still trying to put these ideas into one initial purchase i guess, and not quite making all things happen at the same time!

 

[theskull]

Maybe i just need to get some tanks for singles and purchase the double set-up later, i can afford one or the other right now, but probably not both!!

Good option. And on this tack consider buying Al 80s now. Then if you do continue on with tech and doubles you can use the 80s as stages.

Again, just my opinion, but you did ask for opinions.

theskull

p.s. Cave diving is very expensive. 5-figures plus to get completely geared up and pay for instruction, gas fills, travel expenses, etc. And once you go down that road, you can never own enough stage bottles, reels, regulators, spare parts, etc. Part of the fun! But only if you can afford it.

 

[Robinhood]

I have read a bit on here regarding tanks and even though they arent around til sometime in may, i was thinking of going for the E7-120's. I am about 6'3" and "tried" a set of E7-120 doubles on last night - that is felt them against my back, with my butt on the van floor with the bottom of the tanks the valves were just at above my shoulders and more than manipulable(sp?). I did this with my instructor's set as an aid to seeing how they might be for me. I was contemplating getting them in a full double set-up for future use, but split them up and keep them as two singles for initial overhead cave training (up to intro-to cave) with H valves, as this would be more economical than buying them in bits and pieces from tanks, to valves to bands/manifold/bolt kit later. This would also give me time to save up for a larger wing, another 1st stage, long hose, can light etc whilst i wore them as singles first.

So my situation is that i am actually buying two sets of tanks, the 120's for me and two E7-100's for my GF, all with "post"-like tank valves so that we can use H valves and have redundancy that way when our later training comes along. Now if each pair of tanks has a left and right post valve, one is left, one is right, can we just get one each of left and right H valve components to use for singles and just swap them over as we change tanks out each dive? That would be say me uding my right posted tank with right H valve and my GF using her left posted tank and left H valve, then at the end of the dive i move to my left posted tank and use the left H valve as taken off my GF's tank valve and she uses her right posted tank with the right H valve that was on mine the previous dive. This arrangement would save over $100 by not buying two additional H valves that would become obselete when i double mine up in the future. Does this put excess pressure on the valves being constantly swapped out or be loads of hassle to accomplish each dive?

We are also looking at setting up my GF with side mounting possibly, but that is a whole other discussion!

Does this all make sense to you all? I am still continuing to ask my instructor who will take us through overhead training in the future and also the LDS's around here as i weigh up their packages on this gear and general services for fills, inspections and other tests. I have been mulling this stuff over for a while now, and just reached a point where i wasnt sure on what could or couldnt be done.

I'm quite sure you would have to drain the tank before taking off the H-valve...this would become a royal pain in the butt in between dives. Contrary to what Spare Air advertises :54: , it takes quite a while to drain a tank. You cold put a want to buy (WTB) post on cavediver.net for an H-valve. Everyone on that board was or is an intro diver and some of them may be itching to get rid of their H portions. I think I picked my H portion up for $15 - $20 when I was prepping for my Intro class.

 

[simbrooks]

The only thing about the AL80's, is that i am not so keen on them, i understand the need for stages in the future, but would like to dive steel at this time for various reasons. Hence not wanting to get AL80's until i need them later. I think i can get the steels now and put them into doubles later maybe and possibly still avoid the H valves trouble - we shall see!! I also appreciate the cost, i am trying to put down now more than $2000 each equipment purchase block, so that i dont overstress the creditcard - i can pay off those blocks quite easily and have some cash to spare to continue to put together a tech set-up over time.

I found out last night after emailing my instructor that you couldnt change out the H valves with pressure still in the tanks, so that pretty much ends the swapping up idea. I now have to contemplate what is most economical to purchase up front and what to get later. Thinking i could at least get the tanks with post-like valves and plugs for now and later get the parts for doubling up or H valves, that would be cheaper at this time and more convenient i guess, even if i pay a little more overall. Still mulling this one over.

BTW Robinhood or the Skull, have any H valves going??? Thanks for your help, advice so far!

 

[Wendy]

Would you also be diving these steel doubles in the ocean? Or just in the springs? Were you planning on some sort of redundant bouyancy? Those tanks seem really big, have you thought about maybe the 104's? Why would your gf want to go side mount, that would be harder than doubles in some aspects.

 

[simbrooks]

Wendy and all, the diving would be in the ocean and in the springs. I originally thought of then discounted the E8-119's due to the racks in the boats that run out around here being mainly 7.25" dia friendly, and that they are probably too short for me anyway. As for buoyancy, we would be diving them as singles for now, could easily swim up a few #'s of the tanks with a punctured bladder - those #'s are ofset from the weightbelt anyway, so no actual difference in the amount of weight carried, only how much is ditchable. As for LP-104's, they are bigger and heavier than any i am considering (both dry weight and buoyancy characteristic-wise) - they are the equivalent size etc of the E8-130's from my recollection, just lower rated. As for redundant bladders, when doubled i was going to get a dual rec wing or the like for just such eventualities - i also have other stuff to buy yet, can light, anotehr 1st stage, some long hose, probably a drysuit as well, all this will take time to afford and bring together, just starting with one piece of the whole puzzle with these tanks.

As for doubles and side mounts, my GF has a zena at the moment, fine with a single tank, we would need to get another wing in there and not sure if it can be "upgraded" for doubles, but we may opt for a tech rig of a bp/wings for her to use doubles. The side mount was just an idea that was brought up in discussions. The reason i am going for larger tanks (using them as singles til we get further training) is for future use and actually on working out SAC for depths that are suitable for nitrox, we would be fine with NDL's on those sizes, they have more air than AL80's, but with reasonable use should work well with nitrox, or air at shallower depths for longer dive times within NDL's. We are still considering what might be an optimal set-up for her and I at this time and what might be feasible to buy now (as a package for economy, rather than piece-wise) and what we can leave til later once we get more training, inc cavern, intro to cave, on to full cave, adv nitrox, deco procedures etc over time. It all takes time, but i was thinking as i was willing to get tanks at this time, why not get something that can grow with us and be used for many stages of our development, as i also bought the bp/wings for that same reason.

 

[LUBOLD8431]

Technical diving requires alot of gear. Its gear intensive, as they say. There is no getting around that. Dont try to make shortcuts here and there, buy the right gear for the job the first time. If you cant afford it, then dont do the dives right now. Wait until you can afford all the equipment and training, then do the dives. It took me a good five years to aquire all the gear I needed for technical diving. But, it really never ends. You still buy gear all the time. If this is a commitment you are not willing to make, stick to rec diving.

I would recommend skipping the H-valve idea. Get a set of tanks, manifold (with plugs to make two valves) and bands. Dive em as singles for now, and when you are ready, double them up. THis is the best route to take.

 

[simbrooks]

I see what you are saying about the price and funding it, i also understand the H valve issue, maybe they are something we can live without and just do doubles later and singles for now. As for funding, i would prefer to bit off small chunks at $2000 a pop, than drop $10000 at once for a bunch of gear - but still end up with the same stuff. I dont know many people who can drop that much cash at once easily - but there is always saving up for it - but that doesnt get us tanks at this stage of the game by saving up - hence the smaller chunk for tanks for now - ready for doubles, but as singles, other gear for doubles when we are trained and ready when the time comes.