Dolphin Slaughter in Japan

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I bet the most vociferous pro-whalers on this thread have never had a first-hand encounter other than at some shabby oceanarium at the Yucatan.
There's a "pro-whaler" in this thread? Where?

Speaking personally I'd never hunt a whale, or a dolphin......but I'm a softy (call me tree hugger if you will...)

I DO differentiate between my ideals and morals, and those of other people. I try very hard to keep my conclusions to myself though......although, to my shame, not always successfully. I personally think that if we're going to have commandments, "Thou shalt not be a hypocrite", should rank right up there with the rest.
 
It's all a matter of perspectives & ideologies. I do not believe in the ole' perspective that everything was placed on earth for humans to utilize. Having traveled a bit, you'll find that a lot of the world doesn't believe, nor understands that egocentric, Western POV.

I guess I can empathize with the Japanese in this area. I hunt and fish for lots of reasons but I don't much care what the rest of the world thinks about it.
I also recognize the fact that culling (hunting) needs to occur as a direct result of humans screwing around, or subsistence needs. Hunting pig, or deer is typically a matter of culling in the United States. If deer, or pig numbers were low you would not see too many hunters out in the forest with their little orange jackets blasting away.

Hunting can be an effective management tool but it's also a business. In the US, states make a ton on the sale of licenses and quite a few areas of the country rely heavily on hunting or fishing tourism for their income. The money paid by hunters and fisherman also goes to purchase and manage many public lands, many of which are off limits to hunters. In other words, when it comes to conservation, hunters are amoung those who put the most money where their mouth is.
Conversely, the harvesting of cetaceans falls into different categories (in my book):

1. There is little to no point harvesting animals which have high levels of pollutants in their bodies making them unfit for consumption. If deer, or pig had the same levels of pollutants hunters would quit huntin' with the exception of those who enjoy the pleasure of the kill. This is similar to what I saw in Canadian High Arctic where wealthy American trophy hunters came to bag endangered game like Polar bears.

Personally, I don't hunt anything that I'm not going to eat. However, not all "game animals" are generally eaten. In any case, I have never met a hunter who doesn't enjoy the hunt. "The kill" and the meat is only part of it.

Also, as far as I could find out polar bears are not listed as endangered.
2. It's ludicrous to hunt animals that are clearly endangered under the pretense of scientific research. It's almost like saying let's hunt Mountain gorillas and orangutans for research purposes. Their numbers are too low for this type of vivisectionist-based research.

I agree. I see no sense in hunting a species into extinction. Of course, watching habitat disappear with urban sprawl saddens me and farming practices that don't leave any habitat are also disturbing.
BTW – I do like the fact that some folks try to paint me into a corner as a tree-huggin’, Birkenstock-wearing hippie. It's amusing. It's also projecting.

A lot like the
with their little orange jackets blasting away
corner you paint others into?
Sure, I spent some time in Santa Cruz & Berkeley doing quantitative marine research, but let me assure you that I don't look like one and that my understanding about whales comes as a direct result of having working with them in captivity and diving with them in the wild. I bet the most vociferous pro-whalers on this thread have never had a first-hand encounter other than at some shabby oceanarium at the Yucatan. Very easy to speak off the top of one’s head when you don't have first-hand knowledge, or understanding.

I don't think I've seen any pro-whalers here in this thread. Personally, I'm a vociferous pro-leave the next guy alone if he isn't bothering you-er.
Saving whales, or sentient critters (humans included) is not a matter of being an internet accountant.

X


Which brings us back to my original line of questioning. I think we need to seperate conservation concerns from value judgements. The former being something that can effect everyone and can be agrgued with numbers and science. The later being a personal issue of no particular interest to anyone but yourself.
 
There's a "pro-whaler" in this thread? Where?

Speaking personally I'd never hunt a whale, or a dolphin......but I'm a softy (call me tree hugger if you will...)

I'm a hunter and a tree hugger. I grew up hunting, fishing, camping and I'm a diver and I have spent countless hours watching the very same wildlife that I sometimes take. I've always been outdoors in one venue or another and that environment is absolutely precious to me.
I DO differentiate between my ideals and morals, and those of other people. I try very hard to keep my conclusions to myself though......although, to my shame, not always successfully. I personally think that if we're going to have commandments, "Thou shalt not be a hypocrite", should rank right up there with the rest.

I don't see anything wrong with discussing those differences. If we don't, we won't ever know or understand eachother. It doesn't become a problem until we try to force our point of view on someone else. "Force" being the oporative term there.

Taking your reference to "commandments" to be a Biblical reference, I'd point out that the Bible does indeed have quite a bit to say about hypocrisy.
 
If we don't, we won't ever know or understand eachother. It doesn't become a problem until we try to force our point of view on someone else. "Force" being the oporative term there.

I don't see anything wrong with discussing those differences.

******************** MODERATOR MESSAGE******************
I do.
This thread is now off topic. Please start a new one to discuss the differences.
 
******************** MODERATOR MESSAGE******************
I do.
This thread is now off topic. Please start a new one to discuss the differences.

I don't think I'll go through the trouble of starting another thread if you have a problem with that discussion.

Of course, any discussion that you don't have a problem with is off limits and that's as it should be, however, given the nature of the opening post and the linked news article, I respectfully disagree that the current discussion is off topic. In fact it seems at the very heart of the topic.
 
This thread is now off topic.
I think that it was "off topic" when whales were dragged into it. The subject of the Taiji and Futo dolphin hunts, and the ocean whaling hunts are completely different.

As for the differences in attitudes between the Japanese mentality and others, I'd think they are VERY germaine to any useful discussion.

However - while I am personally close enough to know that such differences exist, I'm not Japanese, and my wife is getting tired of answering my questions! ;)
 
There is no use in hunting dolphins as their meat is unfit for consumption, and that these fishermen will obviously earn more when they promote dolphin watching. Mr. Ishii has done it, so why can't the others follow his example? He has fought a difficult battle, and because of him, the Futo hunting has decreased, if not completely stopped.

With regards to hunting deer, people have stated that deer is safe to eat, and is totally different from dolphins. It is a totally useless practice to kill these dolphins for eating, IMO. And these fisherfolk can earn more from dolphin watching.

I am saying this based on the fact that in my country( I'm from the Philippines ) the fisherfolk have benefitted from this. FYI, It is a crime to kill a whale shark here. Anyone caught is thrown in jail, no exceptions. The local government has successfully educated and profited from whale shark watching and diving that the fisherfolk have earned more in conducting diving and snorkeling tours than harvesting the whale shark meat.
 
They sound like my kids when they don't want to eat something I'm asking them to try. They don't like it, yet admit they've never tried it and cannot give me a valid reason why I should not be making them try it. The anti dolphin hunting/culling/killing argument sounds much the same. Lot's of noise and fussing, no sound facts based in truth.


You wouldn't tell your kids to eat something poisoned, would you? If you knew that the meat they are eating contains dangerous levels of mercury, would you still want them to eat?
 
You wouldn't tell your kids to eat something poisoned, would you? If you knew that the meat they are eating contains dangerous levels of mercury, would you still want them to eat?


You just didn't get it did you?
 
Since I started this thread...I wish to have it closed now. This has gone back and forth and its the same thing as past threads.

Moderator...please close this thread.

Thank you,
Lock Washer
 
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