Does an Octopus have to be Cold Rated?

[mastakebob]

Does an octopus have to be cold rated if you have a cold rated 1st stage and primary 2nd stage?
I'm not an expert by any means, but I kinda thought that when a reg freezes, its the 1st stage thats freezing. Which would mean that the 2nd stage is really not involved in freezing concerns.
I ask because I just ordered a Legend Glacia from my LDS (probably way overkill for diving NJ but it was a pretty good deal, and now I got a reg that can go anywhere). Now looking at my octopus options. Obviously will be sticking in the Aqualung/Apeks family, but if I can save some cash by getting a less capable backup, that'd be good. For instance, getting an XTX20 vs an XTX40.

Thanks

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

If an octopus is native to cold water I would say it would qualify as cold rated.

I always thought that historically, when we first added the SMB high pressure hose, and then the low pressure BC inflator hose, and perhaps a dry suit inflator hose, and finally a alternate 2nd stage hose, then the entire reg set looked somewhat like an octopus (4 or 5 arms, must have run into a hungry eel); thus the nickname octopus really applies to the entire reg set.

Unfortunately people don't really care about history and are very lazy in how they speak. It is much more proper to call the alternate 2nd stage an alternate, but if you are going to be lazy why not go all the way and call it just an octo? Octopus is an animal!

Now manufacturers are marketing to the weakest link, but unlike Joe Diver, which calls every Oceanic alternate an octopus, at least the Oceanic web site clearly follows my shrugging marketing scheme and just calls them octo's. Do you really want to be a Joe Diver?

Now that I am off my soapbox and the rant on ignorant people (mostly central North Americans), perhaps someone with experience in cold water diving equipment will answer your question.

By the way, not really making fun of you; society is who I find to be mirthfully ignorant.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Simple answer is, if you are diving cold waters and feel your primary should be cold water rated, then YES, the octo should be. It will encounter the same conditions as your primary (or worse conditions even) and you want the same reliability.

This is of course just my opinion however why introduce a weak link if you do not have to?

 

[SCUBASailor]

I always thought that historically, when we first added the SMB high pressure hose, and then the low pressure BC inflator hose, and perhaps a dry suit inflator hose, and finally a alternate 2nd stage hose, then the entire reg set looked somewhat like an octopus (4 or 5 arms, must have run into a hungry eel); thus the nickname octopus is really applies to the entire reg set.

Unfortunately people don't really care about history and are very lazy in how they speak. It is much more proper to call the alternate 2nd stage an alternate, but if you are going to be lazy why not go all the way and call it just an octo? Octopus is an animal!

As a new diver, I kind of wondered why the name "octopus" had migrated from referring to the entire rig to just the alternate 2nd stage. Around here, that seems to be what everybody calls it, so I thought that was the nickname for it everywhere. Is that not the case?

 

[elan]

Does an octopus have to be cold rated if you have a cold rated 1st stage and primary 2nd stage?

The answer to the question you have asked is NO. however, if you dive in cold water it also better to be rated for cold water.

I'm not an expert by any means, but I kinda thought that when a reg freezes, its the 1st stage thats freezing. Which would mean that the 2nd stage is really not involved in freezing concerns.

You are wrong

This year we got 2 cases of second stage free - flowing in 36-37F water if not handled could potentially result in 1 st stage freezing. Those 2 stages were just inappropriate to be used in waters below 40F

If your octo stage is inappropriate for the temperature conditions one scenario that can happen is when your buddy need the octo and makes the first breaths out of the octo it will start flowing and will not stop until the valve is shutdown thus depleting your air quickly and putting you into a dangerous situation.

but if I can save some cash by getting a less capable backup, that'd be good.

Do not try to save pennies by cutting corners in diving. Get the equipment required for your type of diving. Those who try to do it later pay for that , the smallest pay would be a canceled trip or a terminated dive.

 

[Dockmaster]

Simple answer is, if you are diving cold waters and feel your primary should be cold water rated, then YES, the octo should be. It will encounter the same conditions as your primary (or worse conditions even) and you want the same reliability.

This is of course just my opinion however why introduce a weak link if you do not have to?

I fully agree. If you are diving in water that's cold enough to justify a cold water reg like the Glacia, the octo should be of the same quality. The heatsinks that are built into coldwater primary second stages are there for a reason, so why shouldn't they be part of your octo? Resist the urge to save a few bucks and buy the right gear for your diving conditions.

 

[Scared Silly]

Traditionally people have skimped on their alternate because it would rarely if ever be used. Look at the little itty bitty alternates like the Sherwood Shadow.

But now think what happens to this alternate - gets drug through the sand and is never cleaned out, dangles and gets banged on the coral, etc.

Now think about then you or someone else might use it - when they are fricking out of gas and have the potential to die, and possibly hyper ventilating cause they are nervous about dying.

Now think about what kind of reg would you want in that circumstance. Most people are finally coming to the realization that the alternate should be equal to the primary. QED

 

[Darnold9999]

Another reason for having a cold rated secondary is the potential for a free flow. If your secondary starts to freeflow and is not cold rated you may not be able to stop it. Happened to me - swam out 200 yds or so went down 15 feet or so and the secondary started to freeflow - couldn't stop it - ice in the reg - couldn't reach the valve to turn off the tank (one of the reasons I changed to the fusion dry suit) so was down to under 1000 psi before I could turn off the tank - 200 yard swim back to shore cursing the whole way. Replaced that reg the next day and is my "spare" in the save a dive kit.

 

[Jorgy]

If you dive real cold water....when we splash on 1/1/10 water temp will be about 34 - 36 degrees.......

Then I recommend you go the long hose (7 foot) primary route, as the air has more time to heat up after leaving the first stage before you take it in.......

If that is the route you go, then remember that your "octo" will become the reg you breath so pick wisely.........

Hope this helps.......M

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

As a new diver, I kind of wondered why the name "octopus" had migrated from referring to the entire rig to just the alternate 2nd stage. Around here, that seems to be what everybody calls it, so I thought that was the nickname for it everywhere. Is that not the case?

Well, consider the number of logged dives by posters in this thread and their use of the terms "alternate" "octo" and "octopus" or consider the reputation of grammatical correctness for the regions you and the OP have listed on your profile?

Loosiana and Joysie are fun places to make fun of, and I am in no way making fun of either of you. I am making fun of the people you hang out with who have led you to believe everywhere it is common for octopus to mean the alternate 2nd stage reg.

I live in Hawaii and it is possible more people here call it "da kine yella tingy"

DA KINE (da KINE) Da kine is the keystone of pidgin. You can use it anywhere, anytime, anyhow. Very convenient. What would we do without DA KINE? "Ey, I no can da kine if you no like da kine, too!"