Do you tip your instructor?

[boulderjohn]

Returning closer to the original topic, if we agree that dive instructors are not similar to university professors, can we also agree that dive instructors are not similar to waiters and barkeepers?

Who is "we"?

As I mentioned earlier, the Director of Instruction in the dive shop where I worked believed that it was OK to pay instructors less than minimum wage because they could make up the difference in tips. He believed it was OK even though he knew instructors are almost never tipped.

He himself did a fair amount of instructing, but he did it as part of his salaried position, so it was only the part time instructors who got stiffed.

So if "we" are going to decide something, then the "we" would have to include the people doing the paying.

 

[MtnDiverColorado]

It is a form of meritocracy, pleasant people get a prize and less pleasant people are not rewarded for their work.

Yes, that is exactly the point. I prefer people providing service to me, to be pleasant, and I am willing to pay to reward and encourage that. If you are an unpleasant person, perhaps service isn't the proper field for you. There are lots of professions that don't involve personal interaction.

Don't want to go too far a field from this thread, but I am also a fan of meritocracy. People who work hard, care, take risks, etc, should do better than those who don't. Imho it is common sense.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Who is "we"?

As I mentioned earlier, the Director of Instruction in the dive shop where I worked believed that it was OK to pay instructors less than minimum wage because they could make up the difference in tips. He believed it was OK even though he knew instructors are almost never tipped.

He himself did a fair amount of instructing, but he did it as part of his salaried position, so it was only the part time instructors who got stiffed.

So if "we" are going to decide something, then the "we" would have to include the people doing the paying.

Well, I was replying specifically to @berndo, with whom I have been discussing this aspect of analogizing dive instructors and other types of instructors, but I agree "the people doing the paying" of scuba instructors should read this thread.

 

[boulderjohn]

Don't want to go too far a field from this thread, but I am also a fan of meritocracy. People who work hard, care, take risks, etc, should do better than those who don't. Imho it is common sense.

Common sense, yes, but hard to accomplish in the real world.

I was once part of a task force charged with investigating merit pay systems for schools. I would say 90% of the people on that task force agreed with that common sense position. We spent many months reading books and articles on the subject of rewarding merit in all sorts of industries and settings. We learned it is very hard to do; in fact, it is usually counterproductive. It would take a book to explain it all, but for me the biggest "aha!" was that the systems generally misidentify the merits of the employees and end up rewarding lesser performers whose main skill is gaming the system and looking better than they actually are. The true top performers get pissed off and either stop performing as top individuals or quit altogether. There are other problems as well.

By the time we were done researching, the task force had lost its zeal for meritocracy.

 

[boulderjohn]

Well, I was replying specifically to @berndo, with whom I have been discussing this aspect of analogizing dive instructors and other types of instructors, but I agree "the people doing the paying" of scuba instructors should read this thread.

And how would it help to read this thread?

The management of that dive shop that believed it was OK to pay instructors less than minimum wage....

• continued to pay less than minimum wage (because instructors might get tipped) and continued to do it even when informed that if employees do not make minimum wage, the employer is required by law to make up the difference, and
• the director of instruction said that "instructors are a dime a dozen." He said new instructors came by the shop every other week or so looking for work, so any instructor who did not like the pay system could be replaced in a heartbeat.

They know all this already. They also know they can get away with underpaying instructors, as they have for years. You would have to find a way to infect them with a sense of ethics to make that matter.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Yes, that is exactly the point. I prefer people providing service to me, to be pleasant, and I am willing to pay to reward and encourage that. If you are an unpleasant person, perhaps service isn't the proper field for you. There are lots of professions that don't involve personal interaction.

There are two aspects to providing a personal service, one of which we might call personality, and the other we might call quality. A good service provider offers at least some of each in the balance. Now, the question is how each of us as individual consumers values personality versus quality. Maybe I prefer a restaurant server who may not smile but brings me my food efficiently, leaves me in peace to enjoy my food and conversation, clears the table at the appropriate time, and little more--a true professional. Others might prefer Chatty Cathy the summer employee who introduces herself by name and will put on an act like she's your new best friend for the next 30 minutes.

In a dive instructor, I would be fine with an emphasis on "quality" at the expense of "personality." I have been fortunate to have had such instructors. From what I can tell, there are far more dive instructors who are all about professionalism and not interested in being your best friend. If the dive community regularly tipped dive instructors a similar percentage that we (in the US) tip our restaurant servers, could it impact professionalism?

 

[berndo]

can we also agree that dive instructors are not similar to waiters and barkeepers? I think dive instructors are in a fairly unique position. If the question of whether it is okay to tip dive instructors were as simple to answer as whether it is okay to tip divemasters (dive guides), it would not have been the topic of this thread. Yet we see this same question being asked now and then over the years. It does not seem obvious to me that developing a culture of tipping persons who certify others is a good practice.

In this context I would group instructors in with low wage service jobs. Below bar keepers and wait staff actually.
At least in the 00 years, when I was more of less active, most full time instructors would make under 10 grand a years. In some cases well under. That's for a +50 hour work week.
I doubt that much has changed in the industry. The scuba industry is a total sh_t show in many respects.

The last class I took was 250 bucks per person/day and my instructor drives a new car that's over 150 grand... I didn't tip him even though I was happy with the class.

If I think or know someone works for hardly any money, I'm more inclined to tip, whatever the actual job is. If I know you're doing well, I'm not tipping.

 

[Lorenzoid]

And how would it help to read this thread?

. . .

You would have to find a way to infect them with a sense of ethics to make that matter.

Change comes slowly. Maybe our sense of "ethics" can develop over time as we read how others feel about a topic.

 

[boulderjohn]

More thoughts....

• Because management is required by law to make up for any failure of tips to meet minimum wage, when you tip a low income worker, you are actually relieving management of their legally required obligation to meet minimum wage. Your tip is not really going to the worker; it is going to management.
• That is literally true in many cases. I used to use a shuttle service to go to the airport. I would schedule and pay online, and I would be asked if I wanted to prepay the tip as well. I always did, but I got suspicious. One day I asked a driver about it. He said they were paid a flat hourly wage, and the only time they ever got tips is if the rider handed them cash. The money I tipped online was just an added fee that went to management and stayed there.
• This is also done in many restaurants, as was revealed in an article I read a couple years ago. In many cases, the tip you add to your credit card payment just goes to management, who distributes it as they see fit. If you gave a big fat tip to a server who provided extraordinary service, that money could be distributed among staff you never even saw, or if tips that night were enough for all workers to make minimum wage, the management might keep all of it.

 

[JMarc]

People who work hard, care, take risks, etc, should do better than those who don't.

Do you think that's the current state, that the current disparity of wealth, income and social status is warranted by the difference of hard work, skill, risk taking and general value procurement to the society?