Do Scuba Internships Violate Labor Laws?

[Trace Malinowski]

I'm posting this information to raise awareness for those people thinking about "going pro" or who recently have become divemasters or instructors about what is becoming an under-handed and devaluing employment tactic in the diving industry. They should seek opportunities elsewhere rather than do the job of a DM or instructor as an unpaid intern.

I also want to raise awareness for employers who might not realize that such unpaid internships might be illegal and give them food for thought to research the situation for themselves and offer proper employment opportunities.

While it might not seem like a dive operation would have deep enough pockets to interest an attorney, there are enough young, hungry, and desperate lawyers out there who could use a few bucks. I once lived with one in Miami. If she thought she could win a case, she pounced.

 

[Frosty]

Sorry folks Im genuinely struggling to understand the issue here.
My understanding is that the dive shop gets you your qualifications then you work it off.
Those very hungry lawyers you speak of. The years of study they did at university had to be paid for by them
The way I see it an internship is a better deal than that.

 

[KevinNM]

There is no money in it for a lawyer to take the case on contingency, as my guess happened in "publishing, fashion, film and other industries." As applied to mom-and-pop businesses, the unpaid intern regulations would seem to have no teeth.

There are people who make (or made) a very nice living suing people under the ADA. Not a lot per case, but with enough cases...
Cracking down on ADA lawsuit abuse | CalWatchdog.com

 

[Robert Thompson]

I get where you're going. I think probably a lot of instructors did free work when they started on that path. I know I did. Of course it's new and exciting and your involved in something you love.
I've worked for, managed, and owned dive shops, and we all know there isn't a lot of extra money rolling around. Especially now that online stores have killed the gear market. Not to mention Padi has certified over 200,000 instructors in the last 20 years and thats just one agency. So raising class prices isn't really an option. I think any legal action would just be the nail in the coffin for a lot of shops.

 

[redacted]

I've worked for, managed, and owned dive shops, and we all know there isn't a lot of extra money rolling around. Especially now that online stores have killed the gear market. Not to mention Padi has certified over 200,000 instructors in the last 20 years and thats just one agency. So raising class prices isn't really an option. I think any legal action would just be the nail in the coffin for a lot of shops.

So, I take it you never worked for one of the larger, efficient shops like Leisurepro, Scubatoys, or DRIS.

The biggest difference between them and most struggling shops is management and vision.

 

[KevinNM]

The biggest difference between them and most struggling shops is management and vision.

I was in scubatoys last week. It's a very nice shop that seems very well run, however I suspect the difference also has something to do with having the ability to afford to have $6 million in inventory. But needing go from Albuquerque to Dallas or LA as the closest place to take a scuba class probably has a negative long-term impact on the viability of the hobby.

 

[redacted]

I was in scubatoys last week. It's a very nice shop that seems very well run, however I suspect the difference also has something to do with having the ability to afford to have $6 million in inventory. But needing go from Albuquerque to Dallas or LA as the closest place to take a scuba class probably has a negative long-term impact on the viability of the hobby.

They did not start out with $6M in inventory. They started as just another better sized LDS. And then they focused on growth and efficiency as they provided customers what they wanted.

 

[ams511]

I also want to raise awareness for employers who might not realize that such unpaid internships might be illegal and give them food for thought to research the situation for themselves and offer proper employment opportunities.

I do not see a legal issue if a person volunteers to work for a company without compensation. Where a legal issue would enter is if they forced the person to work for free in order to maintain employment. Also a lawyer may not be needed if what the company is doing is illegal. The Department of Labor can take people to court to get the employees money.

 

[oldschoolto]

I don't know if it's just the way of the world of work... I worked at a speed shop as a kid for free.. Learned a ton and even got to make a few passes in a AA fuel dragster.. When I started skydiving, move to the airport and slept in a old airplane.. Learned a ton and had a great time.. I've never expected someone to pay me to learn.. And I like it that way..

Jim...

 

[Lead_carrier]

I don't know if it's just the way of the world of work... I worked at a speed shop as a kid for free.. Learned a ton and even got to make a few passes in a AA fuel dragster.. When I started skydiving, move to the airport and slept in a old airplane.. Learned a ton and had a great time.. I've never expected someone to pay me to learn.. And I like it that way..

Jim...

I did a few of the same things to learn a lot of different things. The big difference is when I decided to become a divecon and then instructor, I was going to pay the instructor cash money for the lessons. I didn't expect for them to teach me for free. The first store I went to gave me the cost of the class, told me approximately how many classes I would need to assist to learn their teaching system, then I would need to quit my part-time job at a different dive shop (I had worked there for a couple of years) and come to work in his shop for a year or so, unpaid, so I could learn the industry. That is a crock of bull unpaid internship. He still does it that way and the only way you can shorten your "internship" is to sell over $20000 dollars worth of equipment, if you bucked the system, he conveniently lost your paperwork and you had no recourse since it was your word against his. All of the divecons that I taught were required to come in and assist with classes and when they had time to come hang out at the shop and learn equipment. They were never required to put in X number of hours per week in free labor.