Do I really need AOW for diving with charters going to sites for depth below 60'?

[Firefyter]

From the liability/CYA thread of this discussion, I doubt this is the case. There are trimix/wreck/cave divers and tech instructors who get denied for 65ft vacation dives because their cards don't say "advanced" on them. From this, it doesn't make sense to assume that a subjective "qualification" call is being made. Otherwise, anybody could get on these dives without an AOW card if they just showed requisite real-world experience, and unfortunately that's not always the case.

You could be right. Whatever the case, my Rescue card gets me anywhere I care to go, and I got it without doing AOW. I plan on doing my DM soon, so all this will be a moot point as far as I'm concerned, unless they want to ask a DM to see his AOW card.......LOL.

 

[RonFrank]

Hmmmm, seems to me some operators (Conch Republic, for example) accept evidence (log book) of a dive to 80 feet or deeper within the last six months instead of AOW.

Some agencies *might* take experience into account. However some don't at all, it's AOW, or dive shallow. My Cuz and I ran across this. She turned out to have more certifications than a mechanic, but when I registered, they said in no uncertain terms that AOW or better was a requirement for deep dives, no exceptions.

NAUI does not require AOW as a prerequisite for Rescue. All other agencies require AOW to start rescue. NAUI has no presence in CO, NM, or OOOtah. I stopped looking after three states.

I've never seen an *instructor* or *rescue diver* denied a deep dive. The shop wants a MINIMUM of Advanced. Any OP understands the progression. Rescue, or DM, or AI is beyond Advanced. I don't carry my AOW card, I carry my rescue card, and my Nitrox.

If you want to do rescue without AOW, find a NAUI instructor/shop. People in my area would have to travel.

I took AOW through PADI, I felt my instructor did a good job. I did it right after OW mainly to have a reason to get wet in the winter, and dive with an instructor after my OW dives. I was not very comfortable in the water at that point. AOW really got me to the next level, and inspired my confidence.

An instructor buddy of mine out of ABQ, NM extends an open invitation to dive with him at Blue Hole after his students complete OW at no cost. This is done on a weekend following their OW class. He gives them a briefing before the dive, and we always go to the bottom (80'+). He discusses each dive after they are done, and gives them pointers, and tips on things to work on. Most kick the crap out of the bottom, and have poor trim/buoyancy, but I can tell they are trying to do things right. That is the type of instructor we need to see more of.

 

[Firefyter]

NAUI does not require AOW as a prerequisite for Rescue. All other agencies require AOW to start rescue.

This is the part I'm not real sure about. I don't think YMCA required it, and I'm not sure about SEI. Walter?

I've never seen an *instructor* or *rescue diver* denied a deep dive. The shop wants a MINIMUM of Advanced. Any OP understands that in the progression Rescue, or DM, or AI is beyond Advanced. I don't carry my AOW card, I carry my rescue card, and my Nitrox.

Exactly the cards I carry, and for the same reasons.

 

[Walter]

Some agencies *might* take experience into account.

I've yet to see a boat run by an agency. While they might exist, the vast majority are not, so it doesn't matter if an agency takes experience into account or not. My experience is most (not all) operators in the Keys require AOW for deep wrecks. For some odd reason, most don't seem to require it for deep reefs. Most operators in the rest of Florida don't. Around the Caribbean, some do, some don't.

This is the part I'm not real sure about. I don't think YMCA required it, and I'm not sure about SEI. Walter?

To take DRAM (Diver Rescue and Accident Management) SEI requires either AOW or 10 dives logged after Open Water certification, so it is not a requirement with SEI. You are correct, YMCA didn't require it either. Since SSI requires Rescue for Advanced, I doubt they require AOW for Rescue either. While I really have no idea, I wouldn't be surprised to learn PADI is the only agency to require AOW for Rescue.

 

[matts1w]

From the liability/CYA thread of this discussion, I doubt this is the case. There are trimix/wreck/cave divers and tech instructors who get denied for 65ft vacation dives because their cards don't say "advanced" on them.

Can you cite an example of this truly happening anywhere? Most vacation destinations drop any diver anywhere, and even the most cautious op in litigious societies such as the US would never deny a TDI or DSAT instructor.

Just curious.

 

[Stu S.]

Hey, Matt. My regular dive buddy decided to go through the cavern and cave courses, rather than PADI or NAUI. I believe he is presently certified as "Apprentice Cave". Our favorite dive boat was going on a dive just below 100 feet. They called that AOW only.

We figured that a guy with 10 years of diving and the cave training would be considered "equal to or greater than" AOW. He was told "NO". He needed that AOW.

 

[matts1w]

Hey, Matt. My regular dive buddy decided to go through the cavern and cave courses, rather than PADI or NAUI. I believe he is presently certified as "Apprentice Cave". Our favorite dive boat was going on a dive just below 100 feet. They called that AOW only.

We figured that a guy with 10 years of diving and the cave training would be considered "equal to or greater than" AOW. He was told "NO". He needed that AOW.

Perhaps it does then.....who is the apprentice cave cert through? Which boat pulled this? Maybe we can get their side?

 

[NudeDiver]

Just think of AOW as an "admission fee" to the places you want to go. It sucks. It is lame. It is like many other BS fees in life - but there it is.

I dunno why anyone would take Rescue Diver in lieu of AOW. RD doesn't have anything to do with diving deeply (which is why most of the places that want AOW require AOW). There may be a presumption that a RD has some great experience, but that is hardly the case necessarily.

 

[Stu S.]

Matt, we wanted to do the 3 tank Friday trip with Jupiter Dive Center, which starts with a deep dive. I figured that my pal's cave card (NACD I think), my 1977 NASDS card, and the fact that we had been diving with JDC regularly for several years would get us on the boat just like an AOW card. We figured we were equal to AOW, at least.

Nope. Insurance regulations, we were told. The owner said if we wanted to come to Jupiter for a weekend, we could get the AOW, and he would give us a discount off the regular price. Well I guess that's decent of him.

Then, a funny realization came to me. I was certified to 132 feet, and had done that many times. The dive operator "removed" that qualification from me, and wanted to sell me a new one.

These are good folks and I can only assume that he is honest when he says it was due to insurance.

 

[matts1w]

Then, a funny realization came to me. I was certified to 132 feet, and had done that many times. The dive operator "removed" that qualification from me, and wanted to sell me a new one.

These are good folks and I can only assume that he is honest when he says it was due to insurance.

It is funny how times change. I remember very clearly being certified to 132 feet too- or at least my dad was in OW class. I was only 14 and cannot remember any restrictions on depth put for me...but I could be wrong. I do know my PADI card at the time specified that as a junior ow diver I was required to wear an alternate air source, but for my dad the alt was optional. Somehow that has vanished too....

JDC are very good people, and I am sure they were playing straight with ya. I am surprised this had not come up before as you have been diving with them many times in the past. That would tick me off too if all of a sudden the rules changed.

Anyway, a 10 year old card is proof that someone took a class 10 years ago. It is not evidence that person has even been wet since 1999. Your point about a decade old NACD "apprentice cave" card is very well taken, and to be honest I do not know enough about them or that cert to make an intelligent comment. That being said I might have made the same decision as JDC since I would not be able to call any agencies at 7:30 AM on a Saturday or Sunday to get educated/knowing information. Personally, I would rather err on the side of caution than risk the worst if the worst were to happen. If someone showed up with a TDI full cave or advanced wreck card or NAUI cave 1 of course I would let them on, because I have the information... blah, blah... You get the idea.

I'm still interested in hearing from a tech instructor who was turned away from a 60 foot dive.