Do I really need AOW for diving with charters going to sites for depth below 60'?

[The Kraken]

"Do I really need AOW for diving with charters going to sites for depth below 60'"

Without getting into the specific standards of any agency, the answer to your SPECIFIC QUESTION is, "It depends upon the individual charter".

I've been on numerous charters taking basic open water divers out to sites with bottoms of 10-110' withou any question at to any advanced training or higher level certification.

And then I've been on charters when the person at the dive shop checked each and every c-card to see if the diver had an advanced certification.

Now my advice would be, take an advanced course, that way you preempt the possiblity of being denied access to a charter.

the K

 

[Gen San Chris]

I recomend to students to get their Advanced, with Nav, Deep, Night, S & R + another depending on the area and Deep Diver Specialty courses, With these two courses under your belt you can dive on any dive by rights!
Even better, get your Rescue and EFR and your the man!

 

[rrweather]

Can AOW be an excellent class? Sure, but only if the instructor adds to the agency requirements. Some excellent instructors do. Most don't. Unless your instructor adds a great deal to what is required by the agencies AOW is a joke and not worth taking. I encourage everyone to take a good advanced class. My first recommendation is LA County's Advanced Diver Program. My second choice is SEI Diving's Advanced Plus. Any excellent instructor can also offer a self designed class that equals either of them.

I believe we have the same view on training. I definitely believe there are shortcomings in some of the training programs (as you have pointed out). AOW may not be the best class out there. I was lucky--my AOW instructors went well beyond what the curriculum required. Obviously, some out there don't. I think my issue with the OP was the idea that he saw enough of the training material (I believe he mentioned the NAV video) to know that he didn't need that training. If someone is new to diving, how can underwater NAV training be useless, regardless of how competent you are on the surface with a compass? Maybe it is just me but it is easier to critique a class after completing it than determining before hand that you will not learn anything from it. Going into class with the attitude that you just want to get it done so you can dive charter boats with less harassment is definitely going to affect how much you learn.

The other issue is that the curriculum has to be written to the lowest level. It would be near impossible for an agency to tailor its curriculum to each student. Nav training can't assume you are an excellent surface navigator because most people are not. The only safe assumption is that you were taught the required material for whatever certifications you already posses. This is where the good instructor recognizes your abilities and finds other ways of challenging you while still covering the required material. Ultimately, if you want an agency's card, you have to meet their requirements. It may be BS but they control the game. Either find a new agency or do what they require so you can get what you want out of it.

In the end, I wish the OP luck. We are all different. I would take every class offered if I had the time and money. I like learning and I know that with the right instructor, there is always something to learn. On the other hand, some would rather learn by diving with friends and that works for them.

 

[Web Monkey]

Is it common practice to reject divers going for trips to sites deeper than 60' ? I have never encountered this problem so far but would like to know others' experience as I plan to do more charters this year. I do not care about the card I would rather do more dives but the only thing that concerns me is being rejected.

Regardless of what a dive op "lets" you do, you have to decide what dives are appropriate.

Just because someone will give you a boat ride to a dive site doesn't mean you're qualified to jump in. Some ops would rather have the money and depend on you signing a form that says that you're qualified for the dive and won't sue.

OTOH, if a dive op tells you that a dive isn't appropriate for you, just say "thank you!" and pick another dive. They've just turned down close to $100 to keep you safe, which says quite a bit about them.

Terry

 

[Teamcasa]

Walter's scenario misses the point.

First, the dive operation is in business and they have set up rules. Rules are setup for the majority of divers, not the individual.

There are no perfect rules, and if diver B had taken his AOW class or made a phone call to the shop before showing up, he would not have a problem with the dive op either.

Second, there will always be poorly trained divers that get certified and there will always be people that never bothered to take advanced training that are terrific divers. So what? These rules are not for them.

Everyone knows a story where someone rises to great success without any formal or college education. We also know plenty of people with a great education that have not made much of themselves. Again, so what? The rules don't fit them either.

The owner of the shop or the captain of the boat, makes the rules. It's your job to know them before you book a trip.

Look at it this way, diver A takes an Open Water class and makes 4 dives to 20 feet. He immediately takes AOW
Diver B takes an Open Water class ... he dives often with his much more experienced buddy making 4 dives in the 60 - 70 ft range...20 more dives in the 90 - 100 ft range. All his dives are in the ocean where he's dealt with seas and currents.

Both these divers travel to Key Largo ...
Some operators would tell diver A he is qualified to make the dive because of the joke of an AOW card he has in his wallet. Most of those same operators would tell diver B he is not qualified to make the dive.

In my opinion, they have it backward. Diver A is clearly not qualified to make the dive and Diver B clearly is qualified.

Regardless of what a dive op "lets" you do, you have to decide what dives are appropriate.

Right.

 

[Walter]

First, the dive operation is in business and they have set up rules. Rules are setup for the majority of divers, not the individual.

Do you realize how silly that is?

 

[Teamcasa]

First, the dive operation is in business and they have set up rules. Rules are setup for the majority of divers, not the individual.

Do you realize how silly that is?

It's only silly for those who missed the point.

 

[The Kraken]

It might benefit us all to move away from trying to argue whether or not one's point is "silly", and get back to answering the OP's question . . .

Which is . . . .

"Do I really need AOW for diving with charters going to sites for depth below 60'"

the K

 

[Walter]

Dennis, that question was answered in the second post. Other, related, points have been raised in the discussion since that are now being discussed.

Dave, the point wasn't missed. Your point is that some (not all) charter operators are run by mindless bureaucrats. You seem to support such an attitude of following arbitrary rules blindly with no thought given to the purpose. I do not.

 

[Teamcasa]

Dennis, that question was answered in the second post. Other, related, points have been raised in the discussion since that are now being discussed..

Right.

Dave, the point wasn't missed. Your point is that some (not all) charter operators are run by mindless bureaucrats. You seem to support such an attitude of following arbitrary rules blindly with no thought given to the purpose. I do not.

Wrong. Most charter operations are run by well meaning, hard working individuals just trying to make a living and minimizing their risks. They have insurance companies that specifiy a minimum standard to which the shop must comply in order to keep thier coverage. Tossing them into the catagory of mindless bureaucrats is shortsighted at best. It is just good business.

The question of requiring a minimum certification level in order to dive is not new nor unique. In the broad scope, this insures that the majority of divers who have attained their AOW (or higher) are of a higher skill level than those who have not sought out any additional training beyond OW.

Mocking the training and pointing out anomalies does not change my basic premise.