Do I need a licensed Coast Guard Captain?

[DennisS]

I've worked as a tech for NOAA, U of M RSMAS and a private contractor for EPA ships. I don't have a captains license but my job description at each of these places included small boat operations ferrying scientist and divers. NOAA uses deck hands for small boat operations involving scientists, no captains license required.

 

[Wookie]

Nor do NOAA Corps officers have licenses to run NOAA vessels, nor do Navy ships require a licensed captain. And none of them carry "passengers". Public Vessels don't have to follow any coast guard requirements.

 

[sea_ledford]

Scientific Boating Safety Association would be another good place to ask about this:
Scientific Boating Safety Association – facilitating safe boating practices in research and training.

 

[Rred]

Denis-
Two thoughts. NOAA is government, not civilian or commercial. And in mynay areas government agencies enjoy "sovereign immunity" and exclusion from civil code. So, NOAA may not be subject to USCG enforcement quite the same way that civilians are.

Second thought. In libel laws,"publication" is a criteria. Similarly in slander, there has to be a "speaking". Well, courts have ruled that when a corporation publishes something internally, that's the same thing as one person, one entity, talking itself. And as long as that activity is internal--there's no actionable cause.

LLCs? I would touch that one without an experienced attorney's advice and a formal letter from the USCG stating what their actual policy is. There are just too may wedges that any clever attorney could drive in, to let an insurer throw up all sorts of arguments.

 

[3arl J0n35]

I don't know the answer to your question, but I can tell you the dive shops experience.
We have a small pontoon boat that we take out to the training site.

We are advised by the Coast Guard that we can't ferry students to the dive site because they paid tuition for the class and that would make them "paying passengers" indirectly. The staff can all ride to the dive site on the pontoon and we haul all the students gear to the dive site for them, but the students have to drive their vehicles to the beach and walk down the beach to the dive site.

 

[Wookie]

I don't know the answer to your question, but I can tell you the dive shops experience.
We have a small pontoon boat that we take out to the training site.

We are advised by the Coast Guard that we can't ferry students to the dive site because they paid tuition for the class and that would make them "paying passengers" indirectly. The staff can all ride to the dive site on the pontoon and we haul all the students gear to the dive site for them, but the students have to drive their vehicles to the beach and walk down the beach to the dive site.

That’s a bit over the line for the coast guard. The students paid for the class, not a boat ride. But it’s their pond and their rules.

 

[Rred]

The students paid THE SHOP for the class, and that same SHOP is the commercial enterprise using the vessel for the purposes of COMMERCE.

The USCG is exactly correct to say the "ride" is all part and parcel of a commercial relationship, and the laws say that means a USCG licensed captain is required.

A licensed captain is required anytime a vessel is being used IN COMMERCE.

The USCG doesn't make these rules, they will gladly follow newer lax ones, if you can get Congress to write the exemptions you want.

 

[Wookie]

I disagree. The boat ride isn’t not part of the class, as evidenced by the fact that the students are not getting the boat ride now, yet still completing the class. Now, if they had to take a boat ride (say the class was held on an island) the coast guard would be absolutely right, the ride is a part of the class, but since the ride is optional, and the students don’t pay for their ride on the boat in any way, they do not meet the definition of passenger and therefore, the boat is not a passenger vessel.

 

[Rred]

From the American Sailing Association:
"In short, if you receive any compensation, if the boat has auxiliary power, and if you’re operating in USCG waters, you MUST have a captain’s license."
So if the dive shop simply allows a random student to take over the boat, which eliminates the matter of consideration, they don't need a USCG licensed Captain. But if one of their employees is operating it...And their insurance may have something to say in the matter, either way. But of course you can always enquire at the Commandant's Office for an opinion from the folks who enforce the laws.
A pontoon boat just might mean they're in a quarry or other non-navigable body of water that is outside of USCG jurisdiction as well. In that case you'd only have to worry about state laws.

 

[Wookie]

From the American Sailing Association:
"In short, if you receive any compensation, if the boat has auxiliary power, and if you’re operating in USCG waters, you MUST have a captain’s license."
So if the dive shop simply allows a random student to take over the boat, which eliminates the matter of consideration, they don't need a USCG licensed Captain. But if one of their employees is operating it...And their insurance may have something to say in the matter, either way. But of course you can always enquire at the Commandant's Office for an opinion from the folks who enforce the laws.
A pontoon boat just might mean they're in a quarry or other non-navigable body of water that is outside of USCG jurisdiction as well. In that case you'd only have to worry about state laws.

It's all good. The local office has given their opinion, and the shop is willing to follow the local offices rule. If I had any skin in the game, I might disagree with the coast guard, because they are as often wrong as they are right. But as long as the dive shop is happy, I'm pleased as punch.