Do I Need A Drysuit Course?

[Soggy]

Hmm...must've hit reply twice...oops

 

[JimJam]

Never fails,,, DIR, or die.
and the condescending attitude forever drips down on the "lesser, soon to die ,divers.
Tiny little tanks? bad bouancy? While I do agree that bouancy should be achieved with the bouancy compensator, the delivery stinks, as always. Try teaching, not beating.

Yeah, but the beatings are SO much more fun...Why don't we forget about DIR/Non-DIR and focus on teaching beating??? The world would be a much better place.

 

[Wijbrandus]

I don't think DIR is relevant to this topic, and I see no reason to interject it except to call people names and get off the issue.

Why do people care if someone paid to take a DS course or not? What does it matter to you? I paid for my DS course, and I feel it was money well-spent. I was taught to use the DS for bouyancy, but I didn't like the bubble and use my bc for most of my air now. How does my situation affect you in your little puddle of water? It doesn't. Neither does anyone else's way of diving affect me.

Some days the ScubaTude is so thick in here you can't even find the good information you come here for.

 

[String]

I would agree, yet I have not seen a single drysuit diver with ankle weights dive in good trim (or even close)....not one. The other problem is the fact that you have to overcome more inertia to kick with them on your ankles, thus everything is more work.

Ive seen a lot of ankle weight wearings with excellent trim (and a lot of non wearers with awful trim).

In an absolutely perfect world with perfect fitting drysuits, perfect fitting boots, perfectly fitting wings and BCs and so on then just maybe then ankle weights wouldnt be needed. We dont have a perfect world though. People come in all shapes and sizes and not everyone has or can afford a custom made suit. Not everyone needs one, suit slightly too big around lower legs or ankles? Buy a £10 pair of light ankle weights. For a lot of people this can solve the problem just as effectively but a lot cheaper than a new custom suit.
Some people say use heavy fins such as jet fins. Great. The weight is in the fin. Not really different from using a slightly less negative fin and moving that weight 2 inches further up the ankles though. Again, different solution to the same problem.

I used to wear ankle weights on my one drysuit due to the boot sizes being ridiculous (UK 11 feet on me, UK 10 size dry suit boots and 2 inches of space in the front). The result was a lot of air in them. Ive since switched to wearing 4 pairs of snowboarding socks AND weezle booties to take up the space. Its that or the ankle weights. Both worked but the latter kept my feet much warmer. Its more of an extreme example than most people will have but illustrates my point about fit.

I also dont go along with the "more effort and higher SAC". You can get different weight ankle weights. Some are light, 1lb on each ankle whereas some are ridiculously huge (3-4lb on each ankle). While im happy to admit the really heavy ones may fatigue more easily i cant agree the lighter 1-2lb ones have any affect what so ever. My SAC with ankle weights was identical to me SAC without ankle weights on this new suit (which in turn is the same as my much small non ankle weight older drysuit). I noticed no difference what so ever with finning effort.

In a perfect world of perfect kit maybe there is no need for ankle weights but an imperfect world trim corrections are needed. As i said, some use P/V weights or move pockets around, others use heavy fins, others use ankle weights. All of these are valid solutions to a problem - NONE are guaranteed to produce good trim as that depends on the setup and diver concerned but likewise they can all produce good trim if the diver and setup is good enough. Ankle weights are the same solution to the same problem but for some reason people will suggest moving weight absolutely anywhere on a diver except the ankles.

 

[Soggy]

Ive seen a lot of ankle weight wearings with excellent trim (and a lot of non wearers with awful trim).

I only say this to make a point, and I honestly don't mean this to be offensive, but it will probably come across as such. If your profile picture and gallery photos are any indication of your normal diving habits, I have to question your definition of streamlining and good trim.

 

[sunnyboy]

Couple of points...

1. If the problem is an ill-fitting suit, then the rubber "boot keepers" are a far better solution than ankle weights for keeping the boots on. I know. My first dry suit was a stock Whites where the legs were about 6" too long for me. Not fun. The ankle weights were OK, but didn't really prevent "loose boot" problems. The boot keepers did, and were much easier to use.

2. The problem with using ankle weights for trim is that unless you always keep your feet in the same relative position to your body (i.e. scissor kick all the time), your leg movements will change the relative distance between the weight and your center of gravity. This is not an optimal way to adjust trim. In order to get your trim in order, you it is far better to have any trim weight in a static position. Hence v-weights and such.

Cheers,

-S

 

[Puffer Fish]

Couple of points...

1. If the problem is an ill-fitting suit, then the rubber "boot keepers" are a far better solution than ankle weights for keeping the boots on. I know. My first dry suit was a stock Whites where the legs were about 6" too long for me. Not fun. The ankle weights were OK, but didn't really prevent "loose boot" problems. The boot keepers did, and were much easier to use.

2. The problem with using ankle weights for trim is that unless you always keep your feet in the same relative position to your body (i.e. scissor kick all the time), your leg movements will change the relative distance between the weight and your center of gravity. This is not an optimal way to adjust trim. In order to get your trim in order, you it is far better to have any trim weight in a static position. Hence v-weights and such.

Cheers,

-S

I have to say I love this thread

- so let me understand this, if you shoes are too big, wear ankle weights, if your suit is too long, then use "boot keepers". What do you do if both conditions exist?

Do you learn this in a course? When do the beatings start?

Please don't anyone take offence at this, but I would think that that only ones who could use ankle weights would be trolls, with the short legs and everything, but they don't seem to.

I go all the way back to the origin of this technology, no BC, no ankle weights, and just you, a weight belt and the sea - mono un mono with the thing. I suggest you practice all the possible bad things or take a good class.

P.S. The pilsbury dough boy look is a lot more fun in your bedroom than in the water.

 

[sunnyboy]

I have to say I love this thread

- so let me understand this, if you shoes are too big, wear ankle weights, if your suit is too long, then use "boot keepers". What do you do if both conditions exist?

Buy a new drysuit! :14:

Do you learn this in a course? When do the beatings start?

Please don't anyone take offence at this, but I would think that that only ones who could use ankle weights would be trolls, with the short legs and everything, but they don't seem to.

Why would offence be taken? Actually, I started using ankle weights from the start simply because "that's the way it was done" (i.e. whereever I looked, from instructors to buddies, everyone was using ankle weights). Up here in the north, all our dives are cold water, so the dry suit is part of the AOW course.

It was only later on that I began to see divers with boot keepers instead of ankle weights, and then divers with no ankle weights at all.

Usually the difference (i.e. used ankle weights vs. not) was in the fit of the drysuit, or in drysuits with gators, or some other method of keeping excess air out of the feet.

I go all the way back to the origin of this technology, no BC, no ankle weights, and just you, a weight belt and the sea - mono un mono with the thing. I suggest you practice all the possible bad things or take a good class.

P.S. The pilsbury dough boy look is a lot more fun in your bedroom than in the water.

Maybe I am missing something from this discussion, but I was under the impression that ankle weights are something associated only with drysuit use. The origin of this stuff was wet suits and so-on. You should not need ankle weights with a wet suit.

-S

 

[SadiesMom]

I would agree, yet I have not seen a single drysuit diver with ankle weights dive in good trim (or even close)....not one.

Gracious! Then you haven't seen me. And you haven't seen one of the MSDT instructors from my shop, who's been teaching for 30 years here in RI (and, from looking at your profile, had his MSDT and several dry suits before you were born, much less began diving)...and wears ankle weights with his DS. In perfect trim.

This type of superiority reminds me of religious fundamentalism..."If you don't do it MY way, believe what I do, God will smite you dead with a bolt of lightening from the sky." Well...I'm still here - still alive and not even singed in the slightest.

People are DIFFERENT, Soggy. They have different REQUIREMENTS. They have different gear and have different places on their gear to distribute weight in order to offset the DIFFERENT buoyancy of their INDIVIDUAL bodies.

I notice that the vast majority of those who eschew ankle weights are men...has it ever occurred to you male types that women are built differently? That we as a GENDER tend to carry our weight lower than you do? That we have fat deposits in our hips and thighs as a result simply of being WOMEN (and not for nothing, some of you seem to actually *like* that )? That makes our hips and butts float higher than our upper bodies. Where exactly would you like us to put weight to offset that? It's pretty darned hard to wear weight much lower than your hips...personally, I wear a weight harness and put my weight in that, but even then, I still tip slightly head down. And to counteract that....I (GASP!!!!) wear (horror of horrors!) ankle weights.

And guess what? I'm trimmed.

So before you run around like Moses coming down from Mount Sinai with the Ten SCUBA Commandments (i.e. "Thou Shalt Not Wear Ankle Weights"), you might want to consider that everyone isn't *you.* I'm not going to wrestle you down and force you to wear ankle weights....and I'll thank you to force a little tiny crack open in your mind and realize that *some* people *might* just have different needs than you have...

 

[SadiesMom]

Maybe I am missing something from this discussion, but I was under the impression that ankle weights are something associated only with drysuit use. The origin of this stuff was wet suits and so-on. You should not need ankle weights with a wet suit.

Wrong - at least in my case. I need ankle weights with my 7mm farmer jane as well. Between that much neoprene and the fact that I'm a woman and my body fat is distributed differently than a man's, my...umm...lower end is more floaty.