DM Expectations...

[diverdowndh]

I posted this as a PM to the threadmaster on the "Going Pro" section (thanks El Orans) and he suggested posting it here to see what we get.... So, here goes...

I've been diving for a while, and after looking, hearing and thinking about possibly going pro, I "decided" to pursue my DM. I recently got hooked up with the LDS here in my little town of Castle Rock. Now, here is the real issue... I approached the owner/proprietor, who is the greatest guy in the world about going for my DM. Of course, he was all for it, but really, what does my candidacy mean to him and/or his dive shop? He mentioned something about seeing DM's or DM candidates being literal slaves to whatever LDS they sign up for, but he certainly does not, would not expect that out of me. That whole conversation got me thinking about lots of things, both what it "really" means for me to do this in a particular LDS, or what it "really" means for said LDS. Is there any expectations of me working thru/for the LDS for some time period, what is the real deal for signing up. I was just fat, dumb, and happy with "I want to get my DM certification" and realize there is, or may be, much bigger implications about WHERE I get my DM cert. What should my expectations be of a DM certification?

D

 

[PhilEllis]

I posted this as a PM to the threadmaster on the "Going Pro" section (thanks El Orans) and he suggested posting it here to see what we get.... So, here goes...

I've been diving for a while, and after looking, hearing and thinking about possibly going pro, I "decided" to pursue my DM. I recently got hooked up with the LDS here in my little town of Castle Rock. Now, here is the real issue... I approached the owner/proprietor, who is the greatest guy in the world about going for my DM. Of course, he was all for it, but really, what does my candidacy mean to him and/or his dive shop? He mentioned something about seeing DM's or DM candidates being literal slaves to whatever LDS they sign up for, but he certainly does not, would not expect that out of me. That whole conversation got me thinking about lots of things, both what it "really" means for me to do this in a particular LDS, or what it "really" means for said LDS. Is there any expectations of me working thru/for the LDS for some time period, what is the real deal for signing up. I was just fat, dumb, and happy with "I want to get my DM certification" and realize there is, or may be, much bigger implications about WHERE I get my DM cert. What should my expectations be of a DM certification?

D

Becoming a working Dive Master is a pretty big responsibility. In our store, our Dive Masters spend about 6 months on their apprentice training program. We expect them to develop demonstration quality skills and be able to fully assist our instructors in our classes. In most cases, Dive Masters we teach continue to work with our classes after they complete their training.

In many stores, Dive Masters work for the fun of it. They simply love working with students and want to get lots of experience so they might eventually move on to the instructor level.

We have room for about 4 "active" Dive Masters in our teaching program. An active Dive Master is involved in at least one class per month for every month of the year. We compensate our Dive Masters on a per student basis, just like our instructors. Unfortunately, the compensation is not enough, but that happens to be the state of our industry at this time. Class prices simply do not provide enough money to compensate them as much as I would like. For our "active" Dive Masters, we also pay the insurance. All was ask of them is professionalism, being on time, understanding how important our customers are to us and treating them accordingly, and that they continue to learn. Thanks.

Phil Ellis

 

[diverdowndh]

Very nice response, thank you. So, does this apprenticeship start when the DM course is finished? To be honest, I'm not looking to make a bunch of money at this, I want to keep it a hobby so the pay thing isn't a bother.
I'm wondering why the LDS hasn't talked to me about this, do you think he is waiting to see me finish my ResQ first, then actually start it? Yes, I'm currently in the ResQ class, we actually do the class in about 2 weeks. I guess this all stems from the fact that I haven't gotten any information like this from the LDS, maybe I just need to be patient.
Thanks,
D

 

[joe rock]

I recently completed the DM course. I can only comment on how things were with my LDS. After the apprenticeship requirements there are no expectations. The amount of time spent is at my discretion. Of course there is a quid pro quo. If I expect the same privliges extended other professionals affiliated with the shop, than I need to earn them. Expectations go both ways.

Jokes were made but I never felt that I was in servitude nor asked to do things that aren't expected of a DM as outlined in the DM responsibilities. When assisting with classes I'm always treated and introduced to the class professionally. I've heard the comment about DM's being slave labor many times on SB so I have to assume it's true somewhere. It is totally contrary to my personal experiences with my shop.

JR

 

[scarefaceDM]

In my expereince.

Going through my DM training was actually difficult. The reason it was difficult is that I had to find balance between my professional life, my family life and then my playtime, meaning my diving. Aside from the physical preparation being in the gym, in the pool and on the road riding my bike..I had to find time to study plus put in time into the dive shop to learn the other aspects of the dive industry. The Diveshop asked the DM 's to put in one weekend a month during the training at the shop. Meaning Thursday Friday and Saturdays. They inturn gave us freebees such as air fills, charters( when the boat was not full ) better dicounts on gear and we could borrow anything in the rental dept at anytime. Of curse the customers were the priority over and above anything.

Once the training was said and done, those that chose to remain on staff were given a few more extras but never any cash. CAsh was only awarded when you worked on a charter and a tip was given. The TIPS went to the DM'S...now I never seen much tipping but I got many many thanks for doing exactly what I wanted to do...help others have fun and be safe. Plus some clients bought me lunch, which is a nice gesture on there parts.

Working for a dive shop is a give and take...as long as you the DM respect what the owners want and maintain the professionalism expected from you and they inturn treat you with the same respect.

safe dives

 

[PhilEllis]

I recently completed the DM course. I can only comment on how things were with my LDS. After the apprenticeship requirements there are no expectations. The amount of time spent is at my discretion. Of course there is a quid pro quo. If I expect the same privliges extended other professionals affiliated with the shop, than I need to earn them. Expectations go both ways.

Jokes were made but I never felt that I was in servitude nor asked to do things that aren't expected of a DM as outlined in the DM responsibilities. When assisting with classes I'm always treated and introduced to the class professionally. I've heard the comment about DM's being slave labor many times on SB so I have to assume it's true somewhere. It is totally contrary to my personal experiences with my shop.

JR

Many stores push the Dive Master class as just another profit center class. We do it a little different.

We do not market and aggressively attempt to sell our Dive Master class. When we see someone that has the potential, personality, and the drive....we then introduce them to the idea of becoming a Dive Master. We do charge a tuition for this and we let them know what the benefits are. Remember, we pay the insurance for our active Dive Masters, so we are very selective. We only want people that are REAL professionals.

From the time a person starts our apprenticeship, it takes about six months to complete. They then become an active, working professional with our classes.

Phil Ellis

 

[joe rock]

Many stores push the Dive Master class as just another profit center class. We do it a little different.

We do not market and aggressively attempt to sell our Dive Master class. When we see someone that has the potential, personality, and the drive....we then introduce them to the idea of becoming a Dive Master. We do charge a tuition for this and we let them know what the benefits are. Remember, we pay the insurance for our active Dive Masters, so we are very selective. We only want people that are REAL professionals.

From the time a person starts our apprenticeship, it takes about six months to complete. They then become an active, working professional with our classes.

Phil Ellis

Your store sounds like a great place. This is similar to the way things are with us. I paid a tuition and I served an apprenticeship. After the apprenticeship is completed, we are given the opportunity to be an active working professional, but the choice is ours. There is no pressure to do so (and no rewards nor perks if you don't )

The point I tried to make is that I was never treated badly, rudely or taken advantage of (in terms of labor or fraternity pledge-like obligations).

JR

 

[rawls]

I have a former student who is doing a 5 month apprenticeship in Mallorca, Spain. We stay in contact and she is getting ready to do her IDC in October. It was almost a year ago to date when she took out OW class. Seems so weird that a year later she is almost an instructor. Not that I don't think she has been with it enough to be an instructor. Since she told me about the internship I really like the idea. Five or 6 months seems like plenty of time to get your cert because she is eating and sleeping diving. Her days are usually 12 hours. So by the time she gets her cert she will have earned it. Sounds like Phil's program is very similar to the one Rina is taking. If you can afford the time then that's the way I would go. I would advise to stay away from the quickie courses. So keep with the 5 month process that Phil described. It took me a year just to finish my DM cert because, like scarefaceDM, I have work obligations. But I was there for classes every weekend. And like he said, it is alot of work. It takes dedication. But it was a great experience I wouldn't trade. I went on to get my instructors cert and I absolutely love teaching new students. This process was one of the best decisions I have ever made. I recommend it to anyone thinking about getting a DM cert. You must remember however, it is alot of hard work and takes dedication.

 

[Prostar]

Hey diverdowndh,

Don't be shy about setting a goal and going for it. I had a guy walk into the shop one day saying he wanted to learn to dive and take it to instructor level. I ended up working on the BOB boat with him some time later. You have to be either a DM or instructor to work on that boat. He had gone ahead and done it.

 

[nereas]

It really all depends on the store, and on the instructor. The instructor is actually more critical than the particular store. When you get ready to begin your D/M work, the store will introduce you to an instructor, and then he/she will meet with you and tell you what the REAL expectations are!

Anything that the store owner tells you in the meantime is mostly B/S. The store owner will tell you anything that you want to hear, or that sounds good (take a read of what is above, as a good example!) The store owner is strictly thinking about a future ITC/IDC candidate. He/she (the store owner) won't be directly training you as a D/M in the meantime anyway.

Once you are qualified to begin, having finished Rescue, you will be expected to enroll in DAN O2 and CPR. You may also be expected to buy your own DAN O2 kit. Some instructors will not charge you for the DAN course, others will. Some will not require you to have your own DAN O2 kit, others will. If so, it will be on your nickel.

Once you are ready to begin the D/M course, you will be expected to pay for it and to buy the books you need for it. This can run anywhere around $1,000+. Some instructors do not charge you for their D/M course, but you still need to buy your own books.

The store will expect you to wear gear consistent with a D/M and with what the store sells. You therefore may need to replace some or all of your gear. It all depends on what you now have, and where you got it.

OK, now comes the salient issue.

If an instructor is giving you the D/M course free and the DAN O2 course free and has not charged you anything for them, THEN you certainly owe him/her some kind of commitment, AND he/she will want you to work as a D/M for him/her to watch over the students at the surface while he/she is underwater performing CESAs one by one with the class, and to take them on tours in pairs for their certification dives.

You will want to discuss, how long? It might be for one season, or possibly two. By this time, the instructor will have invested several thousand dollars into you, in terms of instruction and hours.

You need to bear in mind that you will be a D/M candidate for around 3 to 6 months. Only afterwards will you actually become a D/M. As a D/M candidate you are only another student. That is not helping the instructor much, yet. About the only thing you can do is set and retrieve floats (often solo, so welcome to solo diving!), and lug around gear, or help students on dry land.

On the other hand, if you paid for everything out of your own pocket, then realistically there is NO obligation on your part. Once your D/M certification is complete, you can go. By then, you will have paid the store possibly several thousand dollars, so they will be good with it.

And any instructor who charges you for your D/M class and/or your DAN O2 CPR class is a blood sucking vampire, and does not deserve anything more from you than what you already paid! UNLESS you both agree up front that you yourself don't have the time to give back after the D/M certification, in which case then I do not disagree with an instructor charging you full price.

So hopefully that gives you a view of the big picture.